Yoshikane SKD steel question

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Charon

Charon

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Hello

I got a Yoshikane SKD Hammered Finish Nakiri (from Rakuten) and I was wondering if anyone knows if it's SKD11 or SKD12?
The seller did not answer...
 
It is the SKD12 also known as A2 - see here

SKD11 is D2 and Yoshikane sells it as SLD steel. Compared to SKD the SLD has more Chromium and thus more rust resistivity - it barely takes a patina in normal use (unless you cut oranges every day). SKD steel takes patina faster but still not comparable to carbon steel. You will never get food browning from it.

Yoshikane runs their SKD (and SLD) hard - around HRC 63. I definitely recommend a micro bevel to minimise micro-chipping (se Jons videos about asymmetric micro-bevels). Both of these steels are some of my favourite - thay take a nice toothy edge and hold it very long (at leas as long as super blue).
 
Hi Matus!

thank you for the detailed help :D.
The point about not browning food is great to hear. This was an impulse buy and I'm glad it wasn't a bad choice.

I'll make sure to put a microbevel on it. What stone should I use? I have a King 6k.

Alex
 
I have a SKD kasumi gyuto (Zensho/JNS) version. I think that toughness is one of the main advantages of this steel - no microbevel here, I find it to be very forgiving regarding chipping. Also, it stays "functionally" sharp for a long time, as Matus noted. Reactivity is a complete non-issue, although after a couple of months the contrast of the hagane and jigane looks great.
 
I also have one Yoshikane petty, over the time it developed some light patina spots. Nothing big, but no stainless.

On the other hand my (wife's :)) Masashi Kobo made out of SLD is still clean like a stainless. And the knife is left on the counter dirty quite often...
 
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not my hand :p
 
I like to finish off powder steel gyuto's with a 4K gesshin soaker. It raises a even burr easy on powder.
 
Charon, I think that given how toothy the SKD steel tends to be, I think that 6k could be a good match. Since you got yourself a Nakiri (or so I understand) - I would definitely give it a microbevel. I have Yoshikane SKD Hakata 165mm and use it for chopping rather often - I still get slight microchipping (it always goes away with normal sharpening procedure) even though I use microbevel (I may make it a little stronger).

Microbevel might be less needed with knives were you rather slice than chop (for obvious reasons)

The Yoshikane Maxim was selling were quite differently looking and might (just guessing here) be made to his specs concerning edge geometry and HT, so direct comparison to Yoshikane SKD hammered may or may not hold.

One more point - I recommend to sharpen your Yoshikane SKD as wide bevel - that bevel (at least on mine) is nearly completely flat. I always sharpen the whole bevel (easy because it is flat and since the cladding is soft stainless it does not take much work), but since I do sharpen the whole bevel I always start with my 400 stone and them move up to 2000 and 6000 (and recently synthetic natural). I make sure that I raise the burr on the 400 and 2000, but with the last stone I do some bevel polishing and finish with micro-bevel. Works very will for me.
 
Hi Matus,

thank you for the advice. It is a Nakiri. The girl holding it is a friend of mine from Yokohama.
Soon I will receive the blade and get to sharpen and play with it. Maybe I'll put a slightly oversized rosewood handle on it ( from a 240 mm gyuto) :D

I get the microbevel and I will definitively do it. What I do not get is what you mean by - sharpening as wide bevel? My sharpening knowledge is quite limited :)
Do you mean sharpening the wide 15-17mm secondary bevel all the way to the edge. Like some people call it a 0 Grind?
Hmm. that would put quite an acute angle on the edge. The microbevel would then be justified.
I have the stones to do that, but I remember trying something like that on my Tanaka Deba and ended up asking Greg Gola to fix it :))))
 
Charon said:
This is getting out of hand
Click to expand...

Do not worry Charon, most folks around here are harmless, but very witty crowd :)

Yes - you are correct about that. I may not be 100% correct here, but wide bevel is usually referred to as such when there is a distinct difference in angle (at some point) as you go from the cutting edge towards the spine. The wide bevel is rarely completely flat, mostly it has some sort of convex shape. By zero grind one usually means that there is no special edge bevel - this term is rarely used around here and is more common with outdoor knives (Finish puukko come to my mind - those acre actually also wide bevel knives).

My point about sharpening the whole 'wide bevel' on the yoshikane is, that the angle of this bevel is not all that small - and so the knife is not the thinnest nakiri out there. Should you be sharpening only the cutting edge, than this would get worse with time and the knife would start wedge more and more. If you will always sharpen the whole bevel, than you will keep the knife geometry over time more-less constant. Of course you may (should you wish once you gain more experience) want to thin the knife, than you can do that later on.

If you have not done it yet, than check out the Knife Sharpening Playlist from Jon from JKI: [video=youtube;GB3jkRi1dKs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB3jkRi1dKs&list=PLEBF55079F53216AB[/video]

Those are some of the best sharpening videos out there + Jon talks also about different grinds, steels, knife types, etc. Lot's of knowledge compressed into several videos (of very manageable length each).

Just to add - your deba (if it is a single bevel knife) is of course also a wide bevel knife (just only on one side), but that bevel is strongly convex (to have more strength at the cutting edge as it gets used for tougher tasks) and there the same principle applies - always sharpen the whole bevel, so the bevel and edge geometry is kept the same. But Jon explains it better in his videos.
 
It's all in good fun. I meant it as a pun. Sorry for the short reply, I'm out drinking :p. If you are curious Google tanaka modification. Greg Gola did a beautiful blog about fixing and rehandeling the deba :D
 
Charon said:
It's all in good fun. I meant it as a pun. Sorry for the short reply, I'm out drinking :p. If you are curious Google tanaka modification. Greg Gola did a beautiful blog about fixing and rehandeling the deba :D
Click to expand...

I hope you are having good time.

I did google that and the article is awesome. Lots of great tips and tricks. Goes to my collection :)
 
Hi Matus,

I googled "Finish puukko". Those are some cool looking blades. I dont have any outdoor knives but they do look awesome.
Regarding sharpening, thinning, microbevels I did watch Jon's videos a long time ago. I think it's time for a refresh course.

I will try to follow you advice and maintain the geometry of the blade. You mention it's not that thin so I have so tolerances to practice.
Maybe I'll try the 800k King stone first. I've read that gives a nice kasumi finish :))
After I'm comfortable with the result I'll start with a lower 400k in later sessions.

I'm really glad you liked Greg's post. For me it was such a great experience. I sent the knife to be fixed and I got constant updates while it was happening :D.
It completely changed my perspective on how much work and passion goes into sharpening.
 
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The way to tell is easy - the Yoshikane SKD patinates faster than the Yoshikane SLD (we have both at home) what is a clear sign for the chrome content. A2 (SKD12) steel has 5% chrome, while D2 (SKD11) has 12-13%. I would guess there is a typo on knifewear site.
 
Yeah. That may be the case. I will see how fast it patinates. 28th of February can't come soon enough! :D
 
Matus said:
The way to tell is easy - the Yoshikane SKD patinates faster than the Yoshikane SLD (we have both at home) what is a clear sign for the chrome content. A2 (SKD12) steel has 5% chrome, while D2 (SKD11) has 12-13%. I would guess there is a typo on knifewear site.
Click to expand...

Following along here and curious if you've noticed much if any other differences in the two steels. Especially curious in this case as they are from the same maker. Along mainly in regards to edge holding, feel on the stones, etc.

Cheers
 
Let me try :)

Feel on stone - the SKD is somewhat similar to super-blue. The burr is easy to raise and it is easy to feel and easy to remove. The SLD feels more stainless-like, but still gives good feedback and I do not find it hard to de-burr. I think that the high hardness is part of that. I have the impression that SLD will make you work a little more on stones, but I can not say I find it a problem.

When it comes to edge holding - this is a though one. The SKD (165mm Hakata) is 'my' knife and I mostly use it to chop vegetables - so it sees quite some banging. I give it micro-bevel to cope with that. The edge holding is simply excellent. Within my limited experience the edge holding is at least as good as super blue, but the edge is little easier to chip.

The SLD knife is 150mm petty used nearly exclusively by my wife. She only uses slicing motions with the knife and use it with care - and not quite as often as I use my Hakata. But anytime I pick it is scary sharp - I really sharpen it rarely. I have no reason to doubt it will give edge holding in the same class as SKD. It may be less chippy than SKD as I have not seen any micro-chips on this one, but again, it is used in more gentle way. I must test it more.

Both show more-less a wide-bevel geometry. The one on SKD is nearly completely flat (and I sharpen it as such), the SLD is more convex. None of the two is particularly thin (not thick though) because of this particularly thin and while they can cut hard rooted vegetables, thinner knives do that better (e.g. Kochi)

Bottom line - both are really nice to use. Both have really nice F&F. Given the price difference the SKD is a really good deal. I would personally suggest the Hakata to try out - it has a very specific weight distribution - strongly front-forward while the knife is still very compact and nimble - that makes it a fast cutter. Both are on the stiff side (what I like).
 
That's a great comparison. Thank you Matus. I'll be careful with the rehandle. It's a 240 gyuto handle, maybe 5g heavier and 1cm longer...
 
i waited a year for a 270 wagyuto from rakuten after already buying one off bst here long ago. The one i got from bst was substantially thicker than the one I got from rakuten, the hammer finish was slightly different and the newer one sports the engraving "skd" on the side of the blade. from memory, the blades from rakuten are skd-12. I remember seeing it on rakuten or emailing them or something. it was a while ago. it's one of my favourite knives, although I'm truly missing the added weight the old yoshi i was using had.

sharpening hasn't been problematic at all, and i agree with the microbevel comments. it can be a little chip prone but that's probably because of the ****** boards we have at work.
 
I re-handled my 240 yoshikane skd gyuto and gave it away as a gift to my sister moving out of town. I miss the knife, might have to buy it again just to have it in my possession.
the steel is freaking amazing. so practical imo
 
The vendor answered my question " The core is not SKD12 itself, but almost same to SKD12." you where right Matus. I can live with a bit of reactivity if it sharpens easier than vg10 :p.

@BLee I will try to rehandle it too. Did you do a burnin or epoxy it?
 
Charon said:
The vendor answered my question " The core is not SKD12 itself, but almost same to SKD12." you where right Matus. I can live with a bit of reactivity if it sharpens easier than vg10 :p.

@BLee I will try to rehandle it too. Did you do a burnin or epoxy it?
Click to expand...

epoxied. not a fan of d-shaped handles so it has a nice ebony octagonal one now.
 
hm, I'm still considering it. I have a D shaped rosewood, so that should work as a burn-in.
 
Finally got the knife :D
Beautiful blade. The handle is quite light and it had rough feel when wet.
I might rehandle it. The rosewood handle is .5mm longer.

Weight is 160g. Feels blade heavy.

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The "zensho" (sp?) Yoshikane SKD that Maksim sold a couple years ago remains one of my favorite knives. A 210 is one of my go to at the house.

I've wondered how it compares to the now more readily available SKD from EE and others. Would like to try one but can't get past the cheesy (to me) hammered finish.
 
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