Your personal experience with VG-10

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I know it's been discussed quite a bit around here, but I'd like to centralize as many opinions as possible about it in the same thread.

I think the question that bugs me the most is where you guys place value of a VG-10 knife. I encounter many of them on the market obviously, and surprisingly many of them at quite a high pricetag. From reading many comments around here, I had somewhat unconsciously determined a price threshold I wouldn't cross for it - say 200$ US or so for the usual Gyuto 210-240 landmark, and ideally much less expensive might tilt me towards buying one - the likes of Tojiro DP is correctly priced and is recognized to be decent.

Some knives offered at higher prices though come from reputable makers, and have characteristics I like very much.

I personally have only used and sharpened a Takayuki Damascus. Wasn't so hard to get sharp - wouldn't know about the quality and consistency of the heat treatment on those though.

I hope to get as much of your take on the matter as possible - just anything beyond the common line we already know: the bad ones are a PITA to sharpen.

Thanks!!
 
I have seen several knives on-line that have caught my eye, until I see they are VG-10 or a derivative. I know that VG-10 was hyped up a lot when it first started making inroads into cutlery, and on paper, it is a quality steel choice. I place a low value on it due to personal bias. I had a poor experience with it, read about a lot of other people's bad experiences and decided to avoid it in the future. It is more of a "why take a chance?", especially when I know of several other steels I like. I guess to better answer your question, for your Gyuto 210-240 example above, my price threshold is $0.
 
I like kurasaki vg 10 and would easily buy one at the price. I've heard people like tanaka's but I've never sharpened tanaka's vg10. I think heat treatment and particular knife is more important. So if there's a knife you really want that happens to be vg10, then I'd go for it. But if it's just about getting an inexpensive stainless, I'd seriously look at ginsan.
 
I've got a Miyaba Kaizen 5000DP paring knife - I find it a pain in the *ss to get sharp, and it doesn't hold a edge that long. I'd replace it, but it's sort-of a beater knife, so I don't care enough to.

That would be Sandvik 13c26 - FC61 as they like to call it. Have three of that steel and I find mine rather easy to sharpen.
 
Wholeheartedly agree here. I've seen many attractive options at a lower price point with ginsan. In my experience, ginsan is a damn pleasure to sharpen when compared to VG-10.

I own and love Ginsan, but it's not like I'm searching for a steel - I want a particular knife and profile, and many interesting options I've seen as for profile are VG-10. I'd rather not buy the steel, but I'd like the knife of itself. Hence why I'm poking you guys around for different opinions. Of course I also appreciate that some will mention makers that are reputable to treat it right, perhaps even excellently.

Perhaps a good question for me would be to ask where Takayuki would stand, heat treatment wise.
 
I own and love Ginsan, but it's not like I'm searching for a steel - I want a particular knife and profile, and many interesting options I've seen as for profile are VG-10. I'd rather not buy the steel, but I'd like the knife of itself. Hence why I'm poking you guys around for different opinions. Of course I also appreciate that some will mention makers that are reputable to treat it right, perhaps even excellently.

Perhaps a good question for me would be to ask where Takayuki would stand, heat treatment wise.
Is takayuki the one you are interested in? I haven't tried takayuki vg10. I love, love the ginsan version but that is a very different knife. Why not just start talking about the specific vg10 knives that interest you. I think that will be more helpful to you, since most will take a wholistic approach to recommendations. And you can find out details about the particular knifes you are interested in.
 
i think the only bad experience i have had with VG-10 was with Shun. I dont steer away from VG-10 in particular, however, there are plenty of steels that i prefer.

Tanaka's VG-10 has been great, although the knife i have is a 150 petty so it doesn't get the same abuse as my Gyutos. Also have a Tojiro Zen 210 Petty, and 135 Petty that i absolutely abuse, and the VG-10 holds up just fine.

I was at one point looking to pick up a Kagayaki VG-10 monosteel gyuto just to see what it would be like.
 
Is takayuki the one you are interested in? I haven't tried takayuki vg10. I love, love the ginsan version but that is a very different knife. Why not just start talking about the specific vg10 knives that interest you. I think that will be more helpful to you, since most will take a wholistic approach to recommendations. And you can find out details about the particular knifes you are interested in.

The Takayuki is the one I own and have experience sharpening: if someone would tell me that usually their treatment is average it would give me an idea, and if it would be reputed to be poor, then I don't understand why people find it so difficult to sharpen and would love to see a good heat treat. If it's something like among the best however, I really don't see any point in paying more than even 120$ US or so for any iteration whatsoever of the steel.

And I prefer that the thread keeps on the steel in general: it's not about my choice of a knife, it's about a reevaluation of the steel and its place on this market.
 
Like anything, I think it depends on who's making it and how it's treated... I've got a Tanaka VG-10 from a few years ago that is excellent--not chippy, good retention, sharpens well, tough. These are attributes I haven't experienced with other VG-10. In fact, other VG-10 I've tried is the opposite (chippy, poor retention, etc.). I've heard Saji's VG-10 is nice, too, but have never tried.
 
Hearing the positive feedback on the Tanaka VG-10 makes me want to pick one up. I've never really had an issue with VG-10, but have read similar opinions/concerns on it and so I have an assortment of other steels as my collection has grown.
 
VG10 is a niche steel. It could be very good under good blacksmith, or very mediocre with a factory-made knife.
All the Takefu/Echizen guys know what are they doing with VG-10 and it is really good. Even Shiraki knows what to with VG-10 because it had potential, and they make a single bevel version of it. I had Takamura VG-10 and it is very different than your normal Tojiro VG-10. Even Tojiro is pretty decent for comparison to Shun HT wise.

the thing is, a very good VG-10 could cost almost the same as the R2 version which has higher HRC. so it makes sense to buy the later one. then there is Ginsan which is easier to sharpen, slightly harder and price similarly, this is why some people tend to go with Ginsan.
 
VG10 is a niche steel. It could be very good under good blacksmith, or very mediocre with a factory-made knife.
All the Takefu/Echizen guys know what are they doing with VG-10 and it is really good.

THAT... Exactly the kind of reply that is so useful. Thank you very much for sharing.
 
I sharpened 3 single bevel Masamotos in VG10 for a customer.

Last time I will ever do that. It’s sh1t even on knives from good dealers.
 
I like vg10 from tanaka, ryusen and tojiro. Good edge retention and takes a pretty keen edge.
 
I’m sometimes wondering if some of the dislike for VG-10 emanates really from use, or if it’s mostly just the sharpening. It seems more of a sharpening aspect, and if so, is it because you cannot get to results you think you should be able to get with a hard enough stainless, or can you give it a wonderful edge as well but just hate the process with it?
 
I sharpened 3 single bevel Masamotos in VG10 for a customer.

Last time I will ever do that. It’s sh1t even on knives from good dealers.

What specifically was shít about it? What issues did you encounter when sharpening that you would not have when sharpening Ginsan?

(I've very occasionally seen stainless single-bevel knives other than Ginsan [VG-1, VG-10, AUS-10], but have no experience using them or sharpening them.)
 
Like anything, I think it depends on who's making it and how it's treated... I've got a Tanaka VG-10 from a few years ago that is excellent--not chippy, good retention, sharpens well, tough. These are attributes I haven't experienced with other VG-10. In fact, other VG-10 I've tried is the opposite (chippy, poor retention, etc.). I've heard Saji's VG-10 is nice, too, but have never tried.
Noah’s got that legendary tanaka western vg10. What a knife!
Tanaka vg10 rules, one of my kitchen crew has a wa 240, relatively easy to get a great edge.
 
THAT... Exactly the kind of reply that is so useful. Thank you very much for sharing.
That’s exactly right. Not all vg10 are created equal. I have a ton of bad memories from it as well one great memory. So it’s fairly obvious why most vg10 threads are negative, as the stories- maybe rightly so- are largely leveled at an uncompromising and un-sharpen-able steel that takes an act of Congress to get an edge on again. But the diamond in the rough can change anyone into a believer- so as stated above- treated well in the right hands, it competes pretty well with anything. I’d suggest the Warkomi gold from Kikuichi- it’s vg10 core with soft steel jacket. The one I had took an edge that felt like a carbon steel knife with nice fine tooth and sharpened easily (compared to other vg10 I tried waaaaaay back in the days of my young career, like the Takayuki dammy). It’s pretty $$ for vg10 at 300ish. But worth the money imo.
 
I have several Vg10s last year from a different brand, well its a "mass product" lineups, not the artisan one. To be honest, its "tiring", in terms of retention (even it was stated 61hrc +/-) and being chippy just for a regular work and not doing any weird stuffs.
Personally, i'll go with AEB-L or 19c27 swedish steel instead, if i have to go with stainless steel..
 
I’m sometimes wondering if some of the dislike for VG-10 emanates really from use, or if it’s mostly just the sharpening. It seems more of a sharpening aspect, and if so, is it because you cannot get to results you think you should be able to get with a hard enough stainless, or can you give it a wonderful edge as well but just hate the process with it?

As for me, definitely the performance wise, not the sharpening process and result..
 
Not all VG-10 knives are actually made with VG-10 steel. Apparently, when the Made-in-Japan VG-10 knives started appearing, customers bought huge numbers. They were wildly popular, and this didn't go un-noticed by knife makers from other countries,,,especially China. In order to get a share of that Japanese market, those foreign knife makers were simply packaging their own knives with the logo "VG-10" stamped on the box,,,,but actually using their own versions of cheaper steel. I presume this is at least part of the reason why you see mixed reactions about VG-10.
 
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Not all VG-10 knives are actually made with VG-10 steel. Apparently, when the Made-in-Japan VG-10 knives started appearing, customers bought huge numbers. They were wildly popular, and this didn't go un-noticed by knife makers from other countries,,,especially China. In order to get a share of that Japanese market, those foreign knife makers were simply packaging their own knives with the logo "VG-10" stamped on the box,,,,but actually using their own versions of cheaper steel. I presume this is at least part of the reason why you see mixed reactions about VG-10.
That's interesting, and I believe it, but disappointing that the misrepresentation could turn people off VG-10. I've certainly seen knives that are advertised as "damascus" that are clearly just etched/engraved onto the knife - sure they're getting away with it to the unknowing, but it still irks me that those buyers are missing out on the real thing.
 
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