Zwilling Bob Kramer Carbon Damascus 8" Chefs Knife

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Hmmm. Well, each knife is already "1 of 1." That's pretty clear I think; do I really need to etch that on to each piece? It'd be easy enough to do, but wouldn't that seem a little... I don't know... cheesy? Manipulative?

-M

Absolutely; just a funny point. It's definitely a given, and my earlier point was this exactly; why so much for a factory when I could get a full off 1 of 1 custom? Seem silly, to me at least. But, I'm sure all 250 will sell in a flash....
 
I suspect the 250 who would buy this knife know nothing about the world of customs except maybe for BK -- and this knife looks like a bargain compared to a full custom from him (plus no 3 year wait). Thanks to the Internet and these forums, many of us have been able to learn about many other custom makers and obtain knife at a much lower price point. I feel sorry for those who do not know anything beyond the SlT or Chef's catalogs that arrive in the mail, as they buy into a lot of gimmicky products and overpay for artisan versions of the necessary ones. When SlT rolls out BK-approved damascus fish tongs, they will probably cost $500 :)

And I'm surprised no one has commented on the $300 BK sink bridge yet!
 
Hmmm. Well, each knife is already "1 of 1." That's pretty clear I think; do I really need to etch that on to each piece? It'd be easy enough to do, but wouldn't that seem a little... I don't know... cheesy? Manipulative?

-M

Haha, it would be both of those. Don't worry, I was being sarcastic.
 
So, curious: when the 250 knives are all gone, don't you think they'll just start over with a different blade? That's what I would do if I was running that kind of show. So, that really means that this whole 1/250 thing is just kind of a marketing ploy, isn't it? (Rhetorical question.)

So, who really cares about the number game here?

-M
 
So, curious: when the 250 knives are all gone, don't you think they'll just start over with a different blade? That's what I would do if I was running that kind of show. So, that really means that this whole 1/250 thing is just kind of a marketing ploy, isn't it? (Rhetorical question.)

So, who really cares about the number game here?

-M

SLT($), Karmer($) and most importantly (at least for those two entities), the new owner. :D:D
 
I fail to understand the collective hostility toward this knife line. I have to wonder if it is a case of "everyone hates a winner." Kramer seems to be well regarded and it seems to me he wouldn't put his name on something that would tarnish his reputation. Custom work has intrinsic value but that doesn't make factory produced work inferior by default. Something has to be said for the ability to produce 250 units exactly the same, exactly to spec. Interesting that a Chef who can produce a dish repeatedly the same, day in day out, is well respected, but a knife producer not. I think there is room in this world, and a market, for hproduction knives, limited production knives and custom knives.

Perhaps there are sheep on both sides of the fence?

-AJ
 
Well, I own a Zwilling Kramer carbon; and really, really like it. It's a great shape, great steel, great F&F, and the distal taper is perfect- best I've ever seen.

That being said, my main point was I would rather get a true Kramer custom carbon over a Kramer damascus factory.... would be more special.

I think people have a hard time swallowing the cost of these things. It's akin to paying a fortune for one bite of some fru-fru gastronomic crap to me.... I'll take the short ribs and risotto, please.
 
There was kramer auction this week, it was at $18,500

Anyone know where it finished ?
 
I fail to understand the collective hostility toward this knife line. I have to wonder if it is a case of "everyone hates a winner." Kramer seems to be well regarded and it seems to me he wouldn't put his name on something that would tarnish his reputation. Custom work has intrinsic value but that doesn't make factory produced work inferior by default. Something has to be said for the ability to produce 250 units exactly the same, exactly to spec. Interesting that a Chef who can produce a dish repeatedly the same, day in day out, is well respected, but a knife producer not. I think there is room in this world, and a market, for hproduction knives, limited production knives and custom knives.

-AJ

How do we know that the 250 units are exactly the same, and even if they are, how does this make them good? And if a chef produces a bad dish over and over consistently he isn't respected, not in my book at least.
Kramer did already put his name to some less than impressive Shun imitations, but I guess there will only be one way to find out how good or bad these knives are. Still, I don't think it is fair to say that this is a case of everyone hating a winner.
 
+1 to the "less than impressive Shuns"....(can you say thick at the tip)

...at least they got it right at Zwilling.
 
I think the Zwelling Kramer chef knives are okay. Handle is a little too bulky for my tastes, but the 10" otherwise seemed nice. For $350, there are others that interest me more. And I also feel for $2k I'd much rather have a custom carbon Kramer then a 'semi-custom' made with his steel only.
 
Has anyone heard anything on a Meiji line with Zwilling? His euro style isn't for me but if they do a meiji line i'd be all over it.
 
Has anyone heard anything on a Meiji line with Zwilling? His euro style isn't for me but if they do a meiji line i'd be all over it.

i'm the same way. i checked out the Euro line at SLT, and i disliked the handle. way too bulky. Meiji might be something different.
 
I fail to understand the collective hostility toward this knife line. I have to wonder if it is a case of "everyone hates a winner." Kramer seems to be well regarded and it seems to me he wouldn't put his name on something that would tarnish his reputation. Custom work has intrinsic value but that doesn't make factory produced work inferior by default. Something has to be said for the ability to produce 250 units exactly the same, exactly to spec. Interesting that a Chef who can produce a dish repeatedly the same, day in day out, is well respected, but a knife producer not. I think there is room in this world, and a market, for hproduction knives, limited production knives and custom knives.

Perhaps there are sheep on both sides of the fence?

-AJ
Like NO ChoP!, I own a Zwilling Kramer (and a Shun Kramer for that matter) and I really, really like it. I have been the most or one of these most vocal people on this board about how good this knife really is. I think many people here don't give it a fair shake. It is one of, if not the, best made factory knives I have used. Yes it is taller than most gyutos, yes the handle is *slightly* pudgy, but it is still a great knife if you have the man hands to hold it. And I like using a taller gyuto now and then for a change of pace. At $350 I think it was one of the leaders in that price point, and if you can get one with an employee discount for ~$210, it can't be beat.
 
Has anyone heard anything on a Meiji line with Zwilling? His euro style isn't for me but if they do a meiji line i'd be all over it.
When I saw him a few months back at SlT he hinted one might debut very soon, but I'm starting to wonder now. Maybe they are still working on terms w/ Williams-Sonoma.
 
If SLT has an exclusivity clause with him, you can bet it won't run out before the holidays. If Williams Sonoma is getting a meiji line, it won't be until 2012.
 
I think for the most part knife nuts would prefer a real kramer in carbon steel than a factory damascus knife however just buying a real kramer for 1500 bucks is not really an option. You have to win his lottery to get a chance to purchase the knife. There is not even a waiting list anymore. So you have basically three option if you want a knife me made 1.) Win the lottery for one, 2.) Buy one directly from him from is auctions for huge money, 3.) Get lucky enough to find one in the aftermarket. If none of those work you have the option of buying a factory copy.
 
There was kramer auction this week, it was at $18,500

Anyone know where it finished ?

$28,100.

To be fair, it was 3 knives: 8" Chef, 5.75" Utility, and 4" Parer, all in mosaic damascus and snakewood meiji handles; and a cutting board.

Much better deal than the last package auction, which had 2 knives and a cutting board, and hit $55k I believe.
 
I haven't used it but I really like the shape of this knife. How's the geometry feel to people who've tried it?
 
I haven't used it but I really like the shape of this knife. How's the geometry feel to people who've tried it?

Which knife, the straight carbon (52100) Zwilling Kramer? Or the damascus Zwilling version?

The 52100 version is pretty nice, has a gentle symmetrical convex. It is fairly tall, so you do get some sticking despite the convex because there is so much surface area. It has a great distal taper, in fact probably the best or second best of all the knives I have. Starts fairly thick by the bolster, but gets wicked thin by the tip. Thickness behind the edge also tapers as it gets closer to the tip. At the heel the knife is about 1mm thick 10mm or so behind the edge. As you get towards the tip the knife gets thinner until at about 47mm from the tip, the knife is 1mm thick at the spine. Very, very nicely ground and finished for a factory knife, even if it is a $350 one.
 
Which knife, the straight carbon (52100) Zwilling Kramer? Or the damascus Zwilling version?

The 52100 version is pretty nice, has a gentle symmetrical convex. It is fairly tall, so you do get some sticking despite the convex because there is so much surface area. It has a great distal taper, in fact probably the best or second best of all the knives I have. Starts fairly thick by the bolster, but gets wicked thin by the tip. Thickness behind the edge also tapers as it gets closer to the tip. At the heel the knife is about 1mm thick 10mm or so behind the edge. As you get towards the tip the knife gets thinner until at about 47mm from the tip, the knife is 1mm thick at the spine. Very, very nicely ground and finished for a factory knife, even if it is a $350 one.

if the handle wasn't so chunky i would definitely get one.
 
Interesting and pricey. I wonder who made the damascus? When I was at the show in Belgium weekend before last, I heard that Markus Balbach had ended his relationship with Boker. Wonder if he got a new factory customer? There are a couple of other guys who make a fair amount of damascus for other knifemakers in Germany like Achim Wirtz. The most common blend I see my friends over there using is either O2 or one of the Euro versions of the 10xx type steels like C75 and c75Ni, which is pretty much an analogue of 15N20. Anyone heard what the components of the steel are in this knife?
 
What the f**k is wrong with these people? I've been a die hard consertive all my life, but that guy should have the sh*t taxed out of him. Just because.
What exactly is wrong with them? Unless they robbed a bank or set up a Ponzi scheme, why should anybody care how they spend their money?

Jay
 
Interesting and pricey. I wonder who made the damascus? , I heard that Markus Balbach had ended his relationship with Boker. The most common blend I see my friends over there using is either O2 or one of the Euro versions of the 10xx type steels like C75 and c75Ni, which is pretty much an analogue of 15N20. Anyone heard what the components of the steel are in this knife?

@*******,

I´m Markus Balbach from Germany.
My english is not the best, I hope you understand what I write!

It´s right, I supply company Böker since 01.2008 no longer with damascussteel.
But all the other companies in Solingen I supply with steel: Friedrich Hartkopf, Puma, Franz Güde, Eickhorn, Linder, Zwilling and several other companies, knifemakers and Jewelry Manufacturer in Germany and Europe.
If You klick "BALBACH-DAMAST®" on my webside, You can see, what steel I process for my different damascussteel.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Markus Balbach
 
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