Are we losing kitchen knife makers?

It has been bugging me to see some of the kitchen knife makers that I thought were very promising fade away.
A variety of thoughts have been going through my head. The main one was were we unable / unwilling to support them.
Kind of like the old time Patrons of the Arts where benefactors would purchase an artist's works so the artist could support themselves and go on to produce more works of art.

The two knife makers that it bothers me most to see fade away from the kitchen knives scene are Mario Ingoglia and Mike Davis.
Seems like about half of the custom handle makers are gone as well.

Maybe the kitchen knife world is trending toward the plain utilitarian stuff.
Or maybe I am just seeing a small portion of the picture and there is a lot more going on behind the scenes.

It is encouraging to see the new knives that are being made.
But to me it seems like there used to be a lot more custom work going on.

I have no clue what happened to Mike, I was supposed to get a custom from him

I guess we don't always know what is going on behind the scenes.
Example; look what Dave M's ex landlord did to him.

As far as I know Mike is working in some knives , not to forget he is a full time tattoo artist too , you should see some from him soon.
I have no idea what happened to Mario .
In the meantime i see more makers coming out Billipp, Haburn , BRT ...
I think more and more people are getting into making kitchen knives but producing constantly without sacrificing from your family or your day job is not easy


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I hear ya

I think about the problems Will Catchside and the BS Son gas had to put up with. It's hard to believe how much some very talented people struggle to survive, let alone succeed, knife makers and food service folks alike.

Mike posted a while back about not having much time to work on knives, if I remember correctly. And Mario posted about having a lot of things happen on the personal side that severely affected his knife-making time and ability. Both have a lot of admirers, and can easily sell all that they could produce if they were regularly making knives. The audience is still out there (here?) for customs, nice handles, etc.

I don't know how some of these guys do it and put out that much with jobs and family to take care of. But the guys you mentioned and others clearly contributed to the diversity of the products shown here and I always loved seeing their work, so I hope they will show up again when time allows it.

On the handle maker side, I think we lost Mike and I haven't seen much from Karl, recently, but we also gained a few new ones in Mikey, Ken, Anton, and probably others - plus the ones who make Western handles. I am just laying low right now. A day job I hate, hunting for other jobs, teaching university courses, and woodworking just was too much this past spring and my health suffered. So now I am trying to restore my physical and mental health and quietly try to work on my order list whenever I get to it. With all the alternatives, I don't think I am missed much... Gotta see where all this goes, anyway, once I cleared the table.

Stefan

The knife makers who are still making kitchen knives are making some beautiful stuff.
I guess I just got used to looking for the new ones made by a few of the guys that haven't been around lately.
Might sound cheesy but I kind of miss those guys.

I have been involved with the custom knife industry for over 35 years. The one thing I have learned is that many, maybe most, just disappear over night when you are not looking. It is very hard to actually make any kind of living with custom knives and a lot just hit a wall with out warning for a number of reasons.

Not sure about outside of Japan but I can go a little bit into detail of why they are shrinking if you'd like.

To be blunt people aren't buying. That's why we've seen a couple of losses. Can't just keep making things and piling them up you know?

osakajoe said:

Not sure about outside of Japan but I can go a little bit into detail of why they are shrinking if you'd like.

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Please do.

I see Mario in the real world, he told me he isn't making knives at the moment for several reasons. (I won't get into that) But he is doing well.

Salty dog said:

I see Mario in the real world, he told me he isn't making knives at the moment for several reasons. (I won't get into that) But he is doing well.

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Please say hello for me. He is good people and I wish him all the best.

I have knives getting made for probably a year now with mike and last I hear from him he was super busy with tattoos and he was waiting on getting more supplies. But its been ages since I heard from him who knows. Hes a busy guy.

Well for example here in Japan there are different regions where they make knives and different ways they produce them. If you are specifically talking about hand forged knives then I will give a general overview in a bit. But the number one reason I believe is just the level of awareness when it comes to knives.

How many people do you know that just go buy a cheap set of stainless steel knives or do all their cutting with their serated steak knives? Thats not because they are cheap or just dont care. It is because people have know idea what a good knife is and take it for granted when it comes to cooking. How many chefs do you know that say it doesnt matter what knife i use its the cooking that matters. Well as a chef your knife is your TOOL and in order to do good cooking you need good tools. You dont hear programers or pc gamer guys saying it doesnt matter what computer i use its as long as i finish my program or play my game. But how is that PC gamer going to realize he is running his game at half specs if he has never ran his game on a PC designed to bring out those max specs. So yes your tools do matter when it comes to whatever occupation or hobby you do. A good sharp knife does effect your food, makes it easier to cook, is safer, and most of all much more enjoyable.

So those people who just are unaware and have no idea what a good tool (knife) is and keep going out and buying their cheap mass produced knives while the true crafstman loose more and more business. Usually in Japan the craftsman passes it down to his children. It takes many years of just studying and learning the techniques just to get up to that level and then many more years of perfecting that craft. So why is a young kid of a craftsman going to spend all that time laboring in his workshop for not a lot of money. When he can go use basic skills at a car factory or any other job for more money and less work.

I heard Asai san died 2 days ago. He was only 66. Great loss.

Salty dog said:

I see Mario in the real world, he told me he isn't making knives at the moment for several reasons. (I won't get into that) But he is doing well.

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I will take that as positive news. Mario's knives are a unicorn knife for me and I've been on his wait list for almost 2 years. My thought is what's another year or two. In the meantime a Marko is a close second. Now if I won the lotto (which I won't because I don't play - ever) then a DT, WC, or Pierre would be up for consideration.

I also think for most of the US population the economy has sucked since 2007 so it's hard to spend 400 for a knife which is about as cheap as you can get a knife from a small craftsman. And even at 400 I would imagine they are not making much money.

I'm under the impression that custom kitchen knives is just too small of a market. You're probably better off making custom hunting knives in the states.

Noodle Soup said:

I have been involved with the custom knife industry for over 35 years. The one thing I have learned is that many, maybe most, just disappear over night when you are not looking. It is very hard to actually make any kind of living with custom knives and a lot just hit a wall with out warning for a number of reasons.

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I have been in it for 28 and this is very true. There are thousands of custom makers in the US alone but there is a very small percentage of those that do it full time without another source of income.
This time of year there are also many distractions for makers and customers alike. My 4 kids are home every day and they are more demanding about going out with friends and there are always other events and holidays that we want to spend time together at. As customers you are going through the same thing, and it burns up your "knife money" so there is less coming in for us too.
There are other things too, as has been pointed out the custom kitchen knife market is small, but growing. It is true that the market for hunting knives in the US is much bigger, even though those knives hardly ever get used in comparison to kitchen knives.
Thanks,
Del

Thanks Delbert for the insights. I got into fine kitchen knives because I was in the food & beverage industry almost 40 years, on this forum there are quite of few persons in the food business. Then there are a lot of home cooks here as well that know more about knives & sharpening than most professional cooks.

Perhaps it is a limited market. When cutting I always wanted a quality very sharp knife, slowly I would see more cooks willing to spend good coin to get a fine Japanese gyuto or yanagiba. As mentioned the vast number of people who do cooking at home use cheap throw away stainless and know nothing of knife care or sharpening. Even if a small % of these ever got to cut with a good sharp knife perhaps some would venture to the custom knife market.

It may be a sign of the times, here the Honolulu Symphony went under from like of interest & support. At the same time Bruno Marrs concerts were sold out in days. When Barns & Noble book store came to Hawaii was nice lots of books and coffee shop. It just closed down, losing money, a Ross store is taking it's place. Ross stores are poping up all over Hawaii.

I think part of what it takes to improve the market for a kitchen knife maker is educating the customers. That's how Kramer built his customer base. But that alone can be a full time job.
I am not a prosperous person and some of my most valuable possessions are knives. When people look at my fighters and other customs they think they are cool but don't try to get one made after hearing the price tag.
But.....with my kitchen knives after seeing them and trying them out $4 to $500 seems reasonable and several friends and family have gotten ones for themselves.
Before seeing and cutting with a decent kitchen knife most people think $50 is expensive for a kitchen knife. Not because they are being cheap, they just don't know.

I've managed to get a few family members and friends to venture into the world of j-knives and US makers. Sadly one chose a Richmond, but it is still better than what he had before But I'm happy to say my brother-in-law fell hard for a Harner line knife at the ECG and is leaping from the world of Henkels into the world of custom kitchen knife makers. I truly think the more we can all do to help spread the word about these craftsmen to the regular people on the street the more the market will expand and more of the makers will be able to make a comfortable living. And part of the 'education' is convincing them to open up their wallets wider than they had hoped but in return getting a product that will be serviceable for many, many years while still performing a lot better than they are used to.

I know many of the custom makers have quit taking orders because they are so far behind. They are trying to juggle full time jobs and family with making knives and there is just not that much time in the day for them.