Itinomonn profile question

I'm currently eyeing a wa-handled Itinomonn Kasumi 240 mm gyuto. It seems nearly perfect for what I'm looking for. Only... I am not sure about the geometry. When I look at the pics at JNS, the knife seems to be quite rounded at the edge with quite a bit of belly. Since I do push-cutting (and I'll be using this knife mainly for veggies) I'm not sure about it. Can anyone tell me whether the knife is also rounded a lot in real life, or is this distortion due to the photograph?

There is also a western handled Itinomonn Kasumi 240 mm at JNS. This seems to be less rounded and have a larger flat spot at the heel. Is this the case in real life? Or is it again due to the photograph?

My 210 kasumi and kurouchi models are the most bellyful knives I own. The 240s seem a bit less extreme and my kasumi is less severe than the kurouchi model, but I believe the western handled versions are much flatter.

I had a chance to handle 210 Itinomonn kurouchi and indeed it has a lot of belly and practically no flat spot at the handle. I would actually consider getting one if not for the bellyness - the kurouchi was just beautiful (very 3D, so to speak) and the knife felt very solid. The large belly seems to come from both rather high heel and high placed tip (close to spine).

I would guess that large belly makes the knife a very good slicer, but less than perfect cutter (I mean chopping here).

You may however want to check out the stainless clad ones with semi-stainless core - those have much flatter geometry.

Did you have a chance to handle the Western handled stainless clad ones with carbon core, Matus? It seems flatter in the pics.

I definitely like the profile of the stainless clad ones, but those seem more like lasers; that's not what I'm looking for.

+1 about the western handled version. I have one and it has a very flat profile. Works very good with push cutting IMO. I also like the grind very much. Some have written that they need thinning but I´m unsure (can´t remember) which one it was (kasumi, western, kurouchi or SS). I have Kato and Shigefusa to compare with and my Itionomonn definitely doesn´t need thinning. Its a great cutter.
- Kim

The 240 stainless clad western is definitely not a laser by any stretch, or at least not the one I have. As far as belly goes, it does have some curve, but not that much that I would consider it belly heavy, like myself
I'm super happy with mine. Very impressive for such a small price tag in comparison.


And +1 to the thinning comment above. I certainly don't feel any hint of a need to thin this bad boy out.

mark76 said:

I'm currently eyeing a wa-handled Itinomonn Kasumi 240 mm gyuto. It seems nearly perfect for what I'm looking for. Only... I am not sure about the geometry. When I look at the pics at JNS, the knife seems to be quite rounded at the edge with quite a bit of belly. Since I do push-cutting (and I'll be using this knife mainly for veggies) I'm not sure about it. Can anyone tell me whether the knife is also rounded a lot in real life, or is this distortion due to the photograph?

There is also a western handled Itinomonn Kasumi 240 mm at JNS. This seems to be less rounded and have a larger flat spot at the heel. Is this the case in real life? Or is it again due to the photograph?

Click to expand...

Maksim's photograph is very distorted. Look at this thread for an idea of what the profile really is:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/17441-FS-Itinomonn-240mm-Kasumi-gyuto

Funny angle made even more funny but the mouse pad, but I think it gives some good view on the lack of belly curve.
This is a 240mm

Marc, that is a great profile! Exactly what I am looking for. (And overall a very beautiful knife...)

Only... the main reason I got to like Itinomonn is that it seemed pretty thick at the spine and thin above the edge. But the western handled ones seem much thinner at the edge. When I look at the JNS site, there is even one western handled 240 mm gyuto that is 2.8 mm thick at the edge. That is almost laser-like.

How does your Itinomonn fare in that respect?

The 240 I owned was pretty flat, the 210 I still own is very curvy, but not at all in a bad way. There isn't a huge flat spot but a get no accordion cuts, and the curve makes it an effective slicer for such a short knife. It is the only knife I cook with at home. They are both thicker at the spine than my ku 210 suji.

Oh and you can see all the thinning scratches in my FS post, I thinned that knife a lot and the cladding polishes very well with a little sandpaper, easier than most others I've encountered.

Some terrible quick pics I just took, but it gives you an idea of how nice and thin it is behind the edge, backed by a robust spine. Keep in mind this spine is nicely rounded off which makes it look a little thinner than what he really is. The knife on the left is a Kochi 240mm stainless gyuto. Also another badass within the same playing field price/performance wise.

And it's got some surprising heft to it. I was quite surprised when I picked the box up from the post office. Certainly a noticeable difference in weight than most other knives I've received.

Between the Kochi and Itinomonn, I'd take the Kochi for speed/detail work and the Itinomonn for speed/strong arm work. Shallots/carrots, carrots/butternut squash

I know the 210s are pretty irrelevant now, but this pic gives an idea of the stainless-clad next to the kurouchi version...

OP - Knyfeknerd did (is doing?) a passaround the the Western 240. Several users left comments on their impression of the knife. You may find it of interest.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/18008-Itinomonn-240-V2-stainless-clad

That thread got me very curious as well

Thanks all! Particularly for the pics, marc4pt0 and XoomG. Very revealing!

I think it's gonna be a Western stainless cladded carbon, though I'm still not sure. Waiting for a mail from Maksim.

XoomG: on your pics the wa handled one look a lot less rounded than on Maksim's pics. (But which ones are Itinomonns? The two ones on the left? And is the second one from the left the stainless cladded carbon one?)

Do Itinomonns vary so much? Or is it the way I view the photographs? Confusing...

Funny, because the KU version has what looks like a near perfect profile, in my opinion.

mark76 said:

XoomG: on your pics the wa handled one look a lot less rounded than on Maksim's pics. (But which ones are Itinomonns? The two ones on the left? And is the second one from the left the stainless cladded carbon one?)

Do Itinomonns vary so much? Or is it the way I view the photographs? Confusing...

Click to expand...

Sorry, the Ichinomon are the two on the far left. Edge curves are hard for our brains to process from pics, and different angles give different impressions. The kurouchi model has a big curve and no flat whatsoever...I find it a little hard to use. The second one from the left is the stainless-cladded V2 model and is a bit less curvy than the first (probably because it's about 5mm less tall at the heel), and in my opinion is more usable, though it's about as much curve as I'd want from a knife and still has pretty much no flat.

As for variation: probably there is a bit, and the specs on Maksim's site are very unreliable. My feeling was that the first generation ones were very curvy. I do not know if that was a vendor request. However, the more recent the generation, it seems the flatter the profile has become, with the westerns being flatter than the early KU and stainless-clad wa, and then the semi-stainless seem pretty flat too, as well as the newest KU (non-nashiji). It may just be an evolution of the relationship between vendor and maker.

Incidentally, I'm going to try regrinding the nashiji KU gyuto to be flatter and less tall. I'm currently working out profiles that can be ground out of the original shape, and I think it has some potential.

If the western Itinomonns comes up again I hope I have the cash to get one. They look about perfect profile wise. The curve on the wa's has me a bit hesitant, though in XoomG's pic it doesn't look bad at all. Might get one as a birtday gift for my brother and try it out for a bit.

jigert said:

The curve on the wa's has me a bit hesitant, though in XoomG's pic it doesn't look bad at all.

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Yeah, it's weird. Different pictures, different curves...

For what it's worth, Maxim just added another 210 KU Itinomonn gyuto to chi shop and it has quite a bit different geometry and only 47mm at the heel. Oh, and 180mm KU santoku as well.

jigert said:

If the western Itinomonns comes up again I hope I have the cash to get one. They look about perfect profile wise. The curve on the wa's has me a bit hesitant, though in XoomG's pic it doesn't look bad at all. Might get one as a birtday gift for my brother and try it out for a bit.

Click to expand...

Though it doesn't look too bad when oriented vertically, a 90-degree rotation makes them look very round...especially the KU model.

Matus said:

For what it's worth, Maxim just added another 210 KU Itinomonn gyuto to chi shop and it has quite a bit different geometry and only 47mm at the heel. Oh, and 180mm KU santoku as well.

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I mentioned before that the numbers might not be too trustworthy. Maksim's site says the KU nashiji gyuto is 50mm (mine's 55) and the stainless-clad is 55mm (mine's 50). It may well be right for other knives, but certainly not for mine.

XooMG said:

I mentioned before that the numbers might not be too trustworthy. Maksim's site says the KU nashiji gyuto is 50mm (mine's 55) and the stainless-clad is 55mm (mine's 50). It may well be right for other knives, but certainly not for mine.

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The numbers are different because the knives are hand made. I'm sure he doesn't measure each blade, so if it matters then you should ask before you order.

My point was that currently there are 2 different 210 KU Itinomonn gyutos to choose from.

Concerning the variation - I would no expect as much as 5mm in blade height to be honest. Friend of mine has 210 KU gusto which is also 55 tall (makes for a lot of belly since the tip is rather close to the spine).

chinacats said:

The numbers are different because the knives are hand made. I'm sure he doesn't measure each blade, so if it matters then you should ask before you order.

Click to expand...

The output from the shop is very consistent.

edit: didn't mean to sound belligerent, sorry.

Are we talking geometry, or profile? The geometry on the itinomonn knives I've owned and used was pretty simple, but effective: Flatter towards the edge. Thin, but not stupidly delicate thin. A fairly noticeable transition where the grind changes, and meets up with the higher part of the blade face. The transition, along with slight convexing into the transition line end up helping with food release. They are deceptively nice cutters, and a really reasonable price.

As for the profile, I've noticed two different profiles, but pictures can be deceiving. With that being said, in my experience, the KU line has more of a gradual, continuous curve along the edge profile, and the western stainless was noticeably flatter, with a stouter nose. Both are/were very versatile, but I preferred that of the KU version.

Good point, Lefty. We are talking profile indeed.

Hahah. I was talking geometry. And indeed you guys were talking profile in the last few posts.

To shortcut matters (I was involved in a few more recent discussions on hand-made Japanese knives): I think I am looking for a gyuto that's thin at the edge, but quite thick at the spine. And preferably a convex geometry (not profile ). Any ideas? Or maybe I should start a new topic on this?

I guess starting a new thread will probably yield more to-point answers. But out of top of my head I would say that Kochi from Jon could go along those lines.