Getting knives in Japan!!

I have a friend who will be travelling to Japan around Feb, and i've asked her to help me get a knife.

I've decided to ask them to help me get a Masamoto Yanagiba and have it opened up for me.

Since they're not familiar with knives, i plan to write what i want, along with instructions (in japanese) on a piece of paper so they can pass it to the people there.

Is there any flaw in my plan? Anything i should take note of?

What kind of prices am i expecting if were to get direct from the Masamoto shop in Tsukiji, compared to our dealers?

They will do the finishing on the knife for you unless you specifically ask otherwise. What are you planning to write on the piece of paper? Sounds like a bizarre idea to me to be honest, and could be misconstrued if you are not very careful. Is your friend a fluent Japanese speaker?

http://www.tukijimasamoto.co.jp/shop/list.php?catid=YNG

Prices above. I don't think any of the vendors here deal Masamoto Tsukiji knives.

I was at Tsukiji Masamoto (and Aritsugo) a month ago. Tell your friend to bring some time as they will send you away for about 50min to have time to finish the knife. Prices are quite good (see website using Google translate). Just tell them to thin the knife properly (I didn't so I have to do it by myself now).
Masamoto sells two different carbon steels: SK3 and V1. Go for the V1, even if its more expensive.
And tell your friend not to get confused: Masamoto (and Aritsugo) both have two shops at the fishmarket. A smaller one near the fishmarket itself and the main shops in the outer market. They sell the same knifes there, but in the small shop some knives were sold out. So tell your friend to visit the main shop, they also speak sufficient english there.

Thanks so much for the link!

She doesn't know japanese either. =(

Well, i'll probably just write something like: Yanagiba 270mm, Honkasumi, White carbon steel. With saya. Sharpen. No engrave. (translated into japanese of course)

So there isn't much room for misinterpretation. Did i miss out any important details?

I specifically chose this series cos there isn't any other way of getting it. haha

Print out the knife you want from the webpage and just show it to them. Look at the site with Googke translate....that should work

Yeah, good point. Since Tim has so kindly given me the link, it makes more sense to just print it out and include the minor instructions.

I'm not familiar with the SK3 and V1. Are they both variants of the same steel, eg a W2 steel?

Will their KS series be made by a particular one, or they will have different versions of the same knife?

V1 is a nice quality steel made by Takefu. SK (familiar with sk4 not 3) is likely the cheaper steel and will/may stink

V1 is a higher carbon version of V2 which is a very popular steel that takes and holds a nice edge. Some say it is between blue and white steel, but you can check on Gators site to get the actual makeup.

SK-x series steels are lower grade cutlery steels made by Hitachi. In order of purity (with regard to phosphorus/sulfur contaminants) White/Blue/Blue Super > Yellow > SK-x steels.

As always though, the type of steel isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. The aptitude of the guys working the steel with regard to e.g. forging/heat treat/grinding/finishing of the knife = far more important.

If you must have white steel, both Azuma Minamoto Masahisa and Sugimoto at Tsukiji sell yanagiba too.

Hey chinacats. Who's gator, and can i have a link to the site?

Tim, i don't wanna confuse my friend, so i'll just as her to go Masamoto. Though if ever i get to go japan, i'll check out those shops!

Where does V1 fall in that continuum you listed?

They sell matching sayas too right? lol

Also Tsujiki Masamoto and the folks who make the KS series are not the same company. I would check out the link to the Tsujiki Masamoto site and pick from those knives, rather than what is usually thought of as Masamoto knives.

HPoirot said:

Hey chinacats. Who's gator, and can i have a link to the site?

Click to expand...

Take a look at this topic, there you can fin the link...
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?t=20872

bartleby said:

Take a look at this topic, there you can fin the link...
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?t=20872

Click to expand...

I'm purchasing a set of knives from Masamoto Tsukiji through a friend at the moment and have instructed her to print out a picture of the knife with the title and size/price highlighted. Last time I was at the smaller stall at the entrance of the fish market, there was a nice worker there that knows a little bit of English and worked with me to select the right knife. Definitely would recommend the V1 steel (look for the A on the back of the knife). Their store prices match exactly to the price listed on their website. So even if you friend gets some details wrong, the prices should match at the end. Also sayas cost ~1700yen for you reference.

Additionally, if you'd like specifications on the knives before taking the plunge, you can check out MTC Kitchen. I believe they're the only official resellers of Masamoto Tsukiji knives. And as everyone else already mentioned, Masamoto Tsukiji shares lineage with Masamoto Sohonten but produces at much smaller batches and only has 2 store fronts at the Tsukiji market. Last thing, forget asking them to grind the edge to a very specific degree. When I there last time and asked them what degree they grind their knives to, they just kind of shrugged and showed me the angle the use free-hand but couldn't tell a specific number. I guess for them, it's all muscle memory now.

That's excellent info, guys!

I'm sorely tempted to just get her to buy a Aritsugu or Masamoto honyaki! Especially given the savings.

bartleby said:

I was at Tsukiji Masamoto (and Aritsugo) a month ago. Tell your friend to bring some time as they will send you away for about 50min to have time to finish the knife. Prices are quite good (see website using Google translate). Just tell them to thin the knife properly (I didn't so I have to do it by myself now).
Masamoto sells two different carbon steels: SK3 and V1. Go for the V1, even if its more expensive.
And tell your friend not to get confused: Masamoto (and Aritsugo) both have two shops at the fishmarket. A smaller one near the fishmarket itself and the main shops in the outer market. They sell the same knifes there, but in the small shop some knives were sold out. So tell your friend to visit the main shop, they also speak sufficient english there.

Click to expand...

Masamoto Tsukiji makes single bevel knives in White No. 1 and Blue No. 1. They had old stock of White No. 2 when I was there in May, but was told that they are focusing on White No. 1 and Blue No. 1 going foward. The fit and finish varies from knife to knife for the Kasumi and Hongasumi lines. I didn't take a close look at the Honyakis.

From what I was told, the SK and V1 carbon steels are only used for western style knives. FWIW, I've gone to the main Masamoto Tsukiji store twice in the past 2 years and this was all communicated to me by the men there in Japanese.

mhlee said:

Masamoto Tsukiji makes single bevel knives in White No. 1 and Blue No. 1. They had old stock of White No. 2 when I was there in May, but was told that they are focusing on White No. 1 and Blue No. 1 going foward. The fit and finish varies from knife to knife for the Kasumi and Hongasumi lines. I didn't take a close look at the Honyakis.

From what I was told, the SK and V1 carbon steels are only used for western style knives. FWIW, I've gone to the main Masamoto Tsukiji store twice in the past 2 years and this was all communicated to me by the men there in Japanese.

Click to expand...

During your visit were you able to ascertain if their V1 and SK3 line of knives were build by their own craftsmen or built to specification via OEM partners? Seems very strange to me they wouldn't use the same steel for their western knives as for their japanese knives and just wondering if western knives are contracted out...

leiatlarge said:

During your visit were you able to ascertain if their V1 and SK3 line of knives were build by their own craftsmen or built to specification via OEM partners? Seems very strange to me they wouldn't use the same steel for their western knives as for their japanese knives and just wondering if western knives are contracted out...

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Actually, it's rather common for Japanese brands/makers to use different steels for western vs. Japanese knives. Aritsugu, Suisin, Sakai Takayuki all have knives made of different steels for their western lines vs. their Japanese lines.

As for OEM, I don't know who makes their knives, but I'm nearly positive that Masamoto Tsukiji is a brand and storefront - they do not have a production facility there - so they contract out to have other makers/manufacturers/craftsmen make all of their knives. Also keep in mind that the makers of western knives and single bevel knives are often different.

I also didn't ask because (1) I personally don't care who makes my knife, unless I'm looking for a knife made by a specific person because that person makes an exceptional knife, and (2) it's generally rude to ask that in Japan. It's also kind of like going to a restaurant and asking who made a specific dish, going to a car dealership and asking who made the engine, etc.

I have many knives that I have no idea who made them. I just care that they perform.

Mhlee: Thank you that's really helpful. I'm asking only because I really enjoy using their knives and have placed a large order for a honyaki yanagiba and a variety of V1 steel western knives. I think when I purchased my first knife from then, I assumed they were manufacturing them in house with some expertise in blacksmithing passed on from one family member to the next. But that's obviously a very romantic notion. Either way, I love their stuff and will continue purchasing.