Small stainless gyuto for non knife nuts?

In talking with several non knife aficionado friends and family, I often end up recommending a less expensive stainless 7 inch gyuto like the following:
Mac 7 inch
Tojiro 7 inch
FKM 180mm from Japanese chefs knife

All these are well under $100 and seem like decent recommendations for non kitchen knife people to get an introduction to thin sharp kitchen knives without being intimidated and would do okay in a household that may let them sit un-wiped (or heaven forbid get run through a dishwasher).

What other reasonably priced stainless small gyutos am I missing?

Perhaps the Eden Classic or Eden Damscus at knivesandtools (VG10).

On sale atm: https://www.knivesandtools.de/de/pt/-eden-quality-classic-damast-kochmesser-20-cm.htm

What food cutting problem does this suggestion solve? Can't cut pumpkin, can't cut pie.. Budget problem? Why recommend a Jknife that needs special loving-care with stones more expensive than the knife? Teach them to sharpen their knives and then show you really love them.:angel2:

For those who have the interest I then direct them to the 1k/6k King combo stone ($27) and show them how to use it. (most don't have the interest) Often when I am at others houses for dinner they offer up an extremely dull $17 Chicago cutlery special, and then I try to enlighten them. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.

Right at $100 are the Gesshin Stainless and Suisin Western Inox. I've recommended these to "normal" people and have gifted a few. I typically gift one anywhere I find myself cooking on a recurring basis - so I know there is at least one decent knife there.

Goat - you left out the part about recommending an average knife at best from a German retailer to a US shopper. Just saying.

I would also consider recommending the sharpmaker. Learning the stones takes some commitment not everybody is willing to put in and with the sharpmaker a beginner can get amazing results. The sharpmaker is also a great gateway drug.

daveb said:

... I typically gift one anywhere I find myself cooking on a recurring basis - so I know there is at least one decent knife there. ...

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This But I have also learned to carry one knife with me (currently custom bunka-ish knife by Blenheimforge guys).

The spyderco sharpmaker makes it easy tho it costs over 100.00. Found most home folks do not want to learn, they just want you to sharpen their cheap stainless.

The Tojiro DP, Mac, Fujiwara FKM are better than what most people use. They can take a sharp edge & are very reasonable at the smaller sizes. The Suisin costs more has good geometry.

Victorinox knife and Ikea ceramic rod - cheap and effective..

Lars

Also some pull-through sharpeners are decent enough to use on softer knives (like the already mentoined Voctorinox). I bought Chef 's Choice for my parents and it works pretty well. I just thinned their knives with Atoma 140 and JNS 300 so that it will not take forever the first time they use the sharpener.

Kom kom/kiwi cleaver and ceramic rod. The kom kom is so thin that it just takes a few swipes to be serviceable. I keep one at my my parents' house.

Matus said:

Also some pull-through sharpeners are decent enough to use on softer knives (like the already mentoined Voctorinox). I bought Chef 's Choice for my parents and it works pretty well. I just thinned their knives with Atoma 140 and JNS 300 so that it will not take forever the first time they use the sharpener.

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The Victorinox once you knock shoulders off the V grind training to a convex edge works well. The rosewood Victorinox are in similar price range as Fujiwara FKM. The Fuji does not get as much attention here as the Tojiro DP. The FKM is lighter has a nice tip & is mono steel. The paka wood handles hold up well in production kit.

Prefer the FKM over the Victorinox & the Tojiro DP though not knocking either both are capable knives. As you know love the Tojiro HSPS more coin but much better knife than the DP.

Goat - you left out the part about recommending an average knife at best from a German retailer to a US shopper. Just saying.[/QUOTE]

daveb: Seems you are losing a step as the SaltyOne has now joined the circus. BTW: you too have a German beater on which to report as in regular service.. Just saying.

GG,

No doubt Keith is a salty one.

But there is only one Salty.

Pay attention.

Tanaka VG10 should be an option too.

+1 on the Tanaka vg10
On my recommendation my wife gifted a Tanaka vg10 damascus yo santoku to our sons godmother on her birthday about a week ago. I think a knife given as a present should have some bling to it as the non knife nuts usually seem to appreciate that quality in a knife. The Tanaka has that just enough to have that wow factor with the way the damascus has been polished. In addition to it's well known performance abilities of course. I did round the sharp edges (not the bevel:laugh and sharpened it.

She's an avid home cook who enjoys some of the finer things in life and was over the moon with the present. There's a new text coming every other day how she enjoys the sharpness, the size, the wooden handle, how nice it looks and mostly how well it performs. No more love for her globals it seems! :lol2:

daveb said:

GG,

No doubt Keith is a salty one.

But there is only one Salty.

Pay attention.

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KSD is a legend.

I am reminding you that you owe a review on the White handled beater. Send it to the line and join the conga... but take pics. No pics no truth...

@Rayuela There's two groups here when it comes to Kiwi: One flat out disses them, the other considers them relatively specialized tools* (they are VERY thin, rely on you needing (and using) very little force in order to keep the edge intact, and IMHO specialized slicers - that edge on that kind of steel can't and won't stand rough board impact*). Anyway, the closest to a Gyuto would be the #171 or #173 bunkas.

Or did you mean their heavier cleavers, the kind that is a flat 2mm steel plate with an edge? Great to have around for the really rough jobs, but not as a general purpose chef knife.

*I think they have shapes that sometimes look japanese/chinese, but shape vs intended usage is just different with them. A separate style of knives, will not replace, nor be replaced fully by, actual japanese or chinese knives.

Life, Re: Kiwi Who would dis a knife made of stamped sheet metal with no bevel, no edge? I mean its thin, its cheap and you can cut equally well with either side of it:cool2:

I have found that if you give a non-knife-nut one of the thin slicers and a ceramic rod or pull-through sharpener, they are happier and their lives are better than if you give them a gyuto they can't sharpen. Yeah, the edge dulls quickly, but you just swipe it and it's sharp again. And I meant one of the bunka-shaped cleavers. Anyway, it was just a thought. They aren't so pretty or so prestigious as a gyuto, but they do the job.

Please be aware that especially but not only in this price category, factory edges tend to be weak, very weak. Ask a vendor for a stone sharpening. I know about Jon Broida and Korin US offering this service.

@daveb the strange thing is they still work quite well, unlike a lot of cheap blades that use the thin+hollow ground concept. Always has me puzzled: We have a 0.9mm spine and the blade doesn't wobble, collapse, shatter or bend (unless abused with far more force than you need for cutting, if sharpened). Made of the most pedestrian, good enough for government work, rosta-frei (likely 420, b....! ) steel. And yet everyone here gets their twisters in a knick if a spine is "just" 1.3mm when they have every noble steel and temper in the world available?

bennyprofane said:

I would also consider recommending the sharpmaker. Learning the stones takes some commitment not everybody is willing to put in and with the sharpmaker a beginner can get amazing results. The sharpmaker is also a great gateway drug.

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Some salesmen made their business with such statements. Try a Sharpmaker with a kitchen knife and you' re sure of at least wedging within half a year. Do it with a Japanese blade and you have a crazy steering beast as a premium.

What do you mean with "crazy steering beast"? (Sorry, not an English native speaker.) A sharpmaker is not going to be a different experience than an Edge Pro or Wicked Edge (although these might be a bit better) or giving the knife to a regular local knife sharpener. I agree that whetstones are the best, it's just not for everybody, it takes a certain amount of commitment and willingness and effort to learn it.

One could also use a sharpmaker and send it in for thinning when it it's required and if it's worth it. I'm not advertising the sharpmaker in contrast to stones but it's a million times better than what most people do (nothing).

Neither an English native speaker here, but that's not so important. If you apply a symmetric edge on a basically asymmetric blade you will encounter a problem.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/5656-Asymmetry-–-The-REAL-DEAL

Just to help: almost all good blades are asymmetric. Never seen a good really symmetric blade.

Real japanese blades are supposed to steer (@Bennyprofane steer means "zu einer seite verziehen" in this context. )

I think his issue is that there is no good way of regular thinning with the sharpmaker...

But aren't a lot of Gyutos symmetric? (Takamura, Ashi, Suisin IH...)

Rayuela said:

I have found that if you give a non-knife-nut one of the thin slicers and a ceramic rod or pull-through sharpener, they are happier and their lives are better than if you give them a gyuto they can't sharpen. Yeah, the edge dulls quickly, but you just swipe it and it's sharp again. And I meant one of the bunka-shaped cleavers. Anyway, it was just a thought. They aren't so pretty or so prestigious as a gyuto, but they do the job.

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Finally, Friendly pragmatism. Teach them to cut food and feed themselves. Keep the secrets for the knife and sharpening Over-Lords irate1:

Never seen a symmetric gyuto, and to say more frankly: never seen a good entirety symmetric knife.

Sry, meant not

But I'm amazed myself how even toying with an usuba or ajikiri a few times a week seems to quickly teach your brain to auto-compensate for steering...