Advice on Ceramic Hones

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Marek07

Marek07

KKF Supporting Member
Joined
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From reading this forum, it would seem if you are going to use a ceramic hone sparingly & judiciously, the preferred one is a Mac Black with an Idahone in second place. Please correct me if this is wrong. In addition to some "real" steels, I currently have a very cheap ceramic hone from Ikea and would like to get a Mac Black.

I can get the 10" Mac Black delivered for AUD$80 (US$60) but would like to ask if anyone has bought/used the 10" black ceramic sold by Chef's Armoury? It is a "home brand" they have made for them and is AUD$10 less than the Mac.

Alternatively, I could save money by buying a 10" Idahone for considerably less. Even a 12" Idahone would be a cheaper option.

Thanks
 
Pensacola Tiger said:
The best rod hone I have used, and the only one I can recommend, is a sintered ruby hone, the Sieger Long-life. I've tried the MAC Black and the Idahone and they don'e come close to the Sieger.

http://www.fishpond.com.au/Kitchen/Sieger-Long-Life-Ruby-Sharpening-Steel-28cm/9999653651955
Click to expand...

Wow! Strong recommendation indeed - and thanks for the Aussie link. BTW, I have read your "to hone or not to hone" thread.

However, at almost double the cost of a Black Mac, it's a $$$ question for me. I could save AUD$40 by getting the 8" version but that would probably be a tad too small for me. Can I ask you for more specifics... Why doesn't the Mac Black come close? In which way is the Sieger better in operation?
 
Marek07 said:
Wow! Strong recommendation indeed - and thanks for the Aussie link. BTW, I have read your "to hone or not to hone" thread.

However, at almost double the cost of a Black Mac, it's a $$$ question for me. I could save AUD$40 by getting the 8" version but that would probably be a tad too small for me. Can I ask you for more specifics... Why doesn't the Mac Black come close? In which way is the Sieger better in operation?
Click to expand...

Yeah, the price can be a a bit of a dealbreaker, but you're only going to buy it once, unless you break it.

As to why I think the Sieger is better than the MAC Black, I can only say that the edge I get with it is much better than the edge I was getting with a MAC Black. I don't have any microscopic views of the edge, just my own judgement of the edge I get. I'll admit that I was very skeptical when I bought mine (an 8" from NewWestKnifeworks), but I was convinced after the first use. By the way, I find the 8" works just fine with knives up to 240 mm.
 
Thank you all.

It looks as though the Sieger Long-life gets the love/votes - if you're going to use a "steel" at all. Unfortunately, the eBay seller suggested by @bennyprofane excludes Australia from their shipping. :-(
However, the fishpond.com.au site originally suggested by Pensacola Tiger does the 8" for only a couple of dollars more. :)
Amazon are not an option as shipping almost doubles the cost. :-(((

But before I bite the bullet, have any Aussie KKF folk tried the Chef's Armoury offering? Would love to hear from you before committing to the Sieger.
 
The great thing about the Sieger, it removes a lot of metal (comparable to a 500 grit stone) but leaves a fine edge (comparable to a 2000 grit stone). I guess that makes it quite unique. That said, I still prefer using my stones and use the Sieger mainly for my cheaper stainless and carbon knives, great for the regular touch up they need. It does remove so much metal that you just need a few light swipes. You could even use it as the only means of sharpening, you can make a dull blade very sharp with it.
 
Thank you all.

With no response on the local black ceramic, my choice seems to be between the Sieger 8" at ~US$64.50 or the Mac Black 10" at ~$US60.50. The reason I still have the Mac Black in my sights is that it is longer for the $$$ and the Sieger sounds quite aggressive despite the praise for its edge. I generally prefer stones (400>1k>3k>8k - the Khao Men currently being used in place of 3k) followed by stropping but wanted a better rod hone for quick but gentle fixes on lower quality knives including stainless.

Any final thoughts before I bite the bullet?
 
Marek07 said:
Thank you all.

With no response on the local black ceramic, my choice seems to be between the Sieger 8" at ~US$64.50 or the Mac Black 10" at ~$US60.50. The reason I still have the Mac Black in my sights is that it is longer for the $$$ and the Sieger sounds quite aggressive despite the praise for its edge. I generally prefer stones (400>1k>3k>8k - the Khao Men currently being used in place of 3k) followed by stropping but wanted a better rod hone for quick but gentle fixes on lower quality knives including stainless.

Any final thoughts before I bite the bullet?
Click to expand...

Best advice I can give is that I'd go with whatever Rick (Pensacola tiger) suggested over my thoughts every time. I'd skip the Mac and go with the ruby.

Other final thought is that I have a few hones including a twelve inch and I only use about a third of it at any time...that said, it's been a long time since I've used any steel on anything other than my old French carbons...and the ceramic one I have sits unused.
 
Excellent choice. The Sieger is very effective in deburring, other rods tend to accumulate debris on top and thus creating a wire edge.
 
Btw, the Sieger is so fast cutting that it loads with steel very quickly, you can easily wash it with dishsoap and a sponge.
 
Benny, We've kicked around this topic in the recent past. Seems there is no clear "best practices" when it comes to ceramic hones. Some pro's swear by a ver strokes here and there during service, even on GOOD knives. I think the general consensus is that hones work best on softer steels (<60HRC). Some people on the forum, have stated that a ceramic hone on a hard steel can cause micro cracks up the blade.

give it a try, just use smooth light strokes and watch the tip section. I think its best to hold the rod perpendicular to the counter top, the stroke the rod. Don't do what Gordon Ramsey does waving both the knife and hone around. Nonsense.
 
Thanks for your answer, Mucho. The Sieger works fine, even on 67 HRC steel (the sintered ruby might be the only rod recommended for harder steels) but I choose not to use it for my better knives as it removes a lot of steel which is perhaps unnecessary for touch ups, instead I'm experimenting with fine natural stones (Ohira Suita) for touch ups. I do like using my Sieger for my cheaper "for the family" knives and it works great for that. But you are right that for harder knives light pressure and caution are advised.

My question was just curiosity how and for what PT uses his Sieger.
 
bennyprofane said:
Thanks for your answer, Mucho. The Sieger works fine, even on 67 HRC steel (the sintered ruby might be the only rod recommended for harder steels) but I choose not to use it for my better knives as it removes a lot of steel which is perhaps unnecessary for touch ups, instead I'm experimenting with fine natural stones (Ohira Suita) for touch ups. I do like using my Sieger for my cheaper "for the family" knives and it works great for that. But you are right that for harder knives light pressure and caution are advised.

My question was just curiosity how and for what PT uses his Sieger.
Click to expand...

I use it when I need to touch up an edge and I have no time to get out my 6000 JKI diamond stone. I've not seen that it removes a lot of steel, and wonder why your experience is different.
 
Perhaps, I'm not getting it right but I read that it removes like a 500 stone and also when you swipe the blade over it, it leaves a silvery line on the stick. A coarse stone always removes more than a fine stone, no?
 
bennyprofane said:
Perhaps, I'm not getting it right but I read that it removes like a 500 stone and also when you swipe the blade over it, it leaves a silvery line on the stick. A coarse stone always removes more than a fine stone, no?
Click to expand...

All other things being equal, a coarse stone should remove more metal that a fine stone.

I'm curious where you read that it cuts like a 500 grit stone.
 
I read it in the German Messerforum (I think someone by the company who had organised a pass-around was also involved, might have been his quote).

I guess the other reason I'm not using it, is that another user here (sharpchef) has warned me that a rod puts very punctual pressure on the blade which could put too much strain on it. Also, since I'm only home cooking I haven't had the need for it in a way.

I gave it to my father who had been using a sharpmaker and he loves it, uses it as the only means of sharpening.
 
bennyprofane said:
I read it in the German Messerforum (I think someone by the company who had organised a pass-around was also involved, might have been his quote).

I guess the other reason I'm not using it, is that another user here (sharpchef) has warned me that a rod puts very punctual pressure on the blade which could put too much strain on it. Also, since I'm only home cooking I haven't had the need for it in a way.

I gave it to my father who had been using a sharpmaker and he loves it, uses it as the only means of sharpening.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, if you don't use a rod hone properly you can damage the edge. With the proper technique, it's not damaging to the knife. The key is to use very little pressure.

I consider it to be similar to stropping on a stone, but more convenient. It's not a replacement for sharpening on stones.
 
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