Say what you want about Edgepro, this kicks butt

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rick_english

rick_english

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[video=youtube;k3SbEWFSA8s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3SbEWFSA8s[/video]
 
rick_english said:
[video=youtube;k3SbEWFSA8s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3SbEWFSA8s[/video]
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I saw that about 4 days ago. It's something else. Edge pro on steroids.

I was an edge pro user for like 10 years and have been a convert to freehand and more recently j-nats for the last 5. Would rather put the $ into a jnat than that machine.

Cool none the less
 
I've listened to contradicting theories on freehand vs assisted sharpening. The argument is that assisted lasts longer because there are fewer inconsistencies on the cutting edge, and you can see that under a microscope, but freehand argument is that those same inconsistences is what makes the cutting edge last longer due to the fact that those inconsistencies gives the edge a toothiness which can still cut once the blade gets dull, however, as for an assisted sharpened blade, once it's dull it's dull pretty consistently lol.
 

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SliceNDice said:
I've listened to contradicting theories on freehand vs assisted sharpening. The argument is that assisted lasts longer because there are fewer inconsistencies on the cutting edge, and you can see that under a microscope, but freehand argument is that those same inconsistences is what makes the cutting edge last longer due to the fact that those inconsistencies gives the edge a toothiness which can still cut once the blade gets dull, however, as for an assisted sharpened blade, once it's dull it's dull pretty consistently lol.
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There's more to it than that. Gizmos don't compensate for the sweep in the belly on a knife. While freehand you simply raise the handle up a bit while sharpening this area, a gizmo can not do this. This creates an uneven bevel towards the tip. The bevel gets wider and the edge gets thinner making it fragile.

Also gizmos are based on the idea that you want edge consistency or angle repeatability. You do not want this. It will make your knives become wedges over time. You want to sharpen behind the edge of your last bevel from the shoulder down to the edge. This way you thin the knife as you go retaining it's geometry.

In addition you have to consider blade asymmetry. What you do on one side, you do not want to repeat on the other. A simple click up on the wrist while sharpening the backside of a double bevel knife is impossible on a gizmo. You would have to adjust the angle every time you flip the knife. That would be a big hassle.

Finally, single bevel knives. Simply impossible on a gizmo. You just can't do it. There's no way around it.


That being said it's a very well made machine for what it is. A gizmo.
 
:plus1: What ThEoRy said!

It looks really well thought out and engineered - better than the Edge Pro - but ultimately just a gizmo with its inherent flaws. 20 years ago I might have been tempted but now I'd rather spend the money on my first Jnat while I keep improving my skills on stones in general.
 
So Rube Goldberg is alive, well and living in Russia.
 
On top what ThEoRy said - as cool as this one looks, it will fail the user with small & narrow blades as it will not be able to go down much under 20 deg. per side as the jaw will get in the way. I have a simpler jig (from KME). I would also say that IMO these kind of devices are mainly intended for outdoor knives (in particular given today's 'super steels' which are best tackled with diamonds anyhow) where you in general sharpen under larger angles and slight change in the angle does not influence the knife performance all that much.
 
The 'Profile' is a really neat piece of engineering. Laziness knows no bounds. It amazes me how a fairly simple skill that was ubiquitous 50-60 years ago has nearly vanished from common knowledge and has give rise to the invention of such bizarre contraptions such as this. I guess if it work for you then huzzah!
 
I subscribe to and love Wranglerstar. To me, he's the man when it comes to things like "real" hoes and axes. Through him, I've learned things like how to sharpen my gardening tools with a mill bastard file.

That said, he's hardly the authority on the likes of sharpening Japanese knives. For that, I will follow the sage advice I find on this site. For instance, on another video, he wants to see how sharp he can make a butter knife in a few minutes. He does make it sharper in a short amount of time filing off all of the serrations on the previously serrated knife. Can't remember all the grits on the stones he's using, but I think it's like 5 or 6 stones, starting (from recall again) with a 100 and working up to 1000.

I would hate to take off that much steel from my knives in such a short period of time.
 
Never used those gizmos, but would definitely try on small hunting knives if i didn't have to pay for one. I also wouldn't put a nice japanese knife through one of those due to the amount of extra steel it seems to take. Besides, if you have an abrading surface that is attached at a fixed angle to something that pivots on a fixed point, the contact point between the abrading surface and the edge should assume a semi-circular path (instead of the original edge profile). For small knives, it might work as there's not much room for variance, but for big blades, it would visibly change the edge profile.
 
ThEoRy said:
There's more to it than that. Gizmos don't compensate for the sweep in the belly on a knife. While freehand you simply raise the handle up a bit while sharpening this area, a gizmo can not do this. This creates an uneven bevel towards the tip. The bevel gets wider and the edge gets thinner making it fragile.

Also gizmos are based on the idea that you want edge consistency or angle repeatability. You do not want this. It will make your knives become wedges over time. You want to sharpen behind the edge of your last bevel from the shoulder down to the edge. This way you thin the knife as you go retaining it's geometry.

In addition you have to consider blade asymmetry. What you do on one side, you do not want to repeat on the other. A simple click up on the wrist while sharpening the backside of a double bevel knife is impossible on a gizmo. You would have to adjust the angle every time you flip the knife. That would be a big hassle.

Finally, single bevel knives. Simply impossible on a gizmo. You just can't do it. There's no way around it.
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This is the best explanation I've heard. Clearly someone with a lot of sharpening experience.
 
One COULD probably build that kind of gadget using angle and position sensors, strong servos and state tracking.... but that would be one step away from teaching a robot to free hand sharpen :)
 
The inability to thin a knife was what sounded the death knell for my Edge Pro. I also think that the ability to use a wider variety of stones, especially on my carbon knives, gives me better results.
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
One COULD probably build that kind of gadget using angle and position sensors, strong servos and state tracking.... but that would be one step away from teaching a robot to free hand sharpen :)
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Hmmm... a robot able to free hand sharpen? Now that's something I could go for.

Although I have come to love sharpening on water stones, recent nerve conduction studies confirm that I have moderate-severe carpal tunnel syndrome. My doctor thinks I should give up the stones and can't understand my reluctance to do so.

Build a better mousetrap and...
 
I designed what could be called a "Wicked Edge on Steroids." Sits about 2' tall, can put a 3deg/side edge on a gyuto in the double sided/action clamp, and any angle with the one-sided arrangement. Minimal angle variation from one end of blade to the other. And of course you can use a really long strop on it. Far better and less costly to make compared to the Rusky, most of it can actually be built from wood with minimal tools. When the low-cost machine shops I know slow down a bit I'll likely get parts made for several units. Just a fun thing, don't think it will be a great commercial success. But then again I think of the Misen and Bulat boys....
 
What, and have the Misen/Bulat boys steel my idea?!!! (please don't be lame by mentioning a missing "a")

It's really not that ingenious. Imagine a super-sized wicked edge that was designed by someone who actually has some engineering experience. For starters, when the WE guys finally went to proper heim joints they weren't the best and could have done better for less, and they continue to make the clamp from crap aluminum when at the same cost they could have also done much better.
 
I'm surprised the Wranglestar guy, with all his blade related videos, isn't proficient with sharpening without a device.
 
I think it's a great concept and device...but the stones are absurdly priced compared to full size.
 
Doesn't seem to be applying enough pressure on the edge to truly be doing much of anything.
 
The user sharpchef is testing it at the moment and he says that its on the contrary and you can control pressure extremely precisely and that you can get incredible results.
 
bennyprofane said:
The user sharpchef is testing it at the moment and he says that its on the contrary and you can control pressure extremely precisely and that you can get incredible results.
Click to expand...

I am very impressed of this system..... The one in the Vid from bennyprofane!. The other thing is just a better made Edge Pro with all pros and cons......

This gives you the opportunity to do a full range benchstone honing action nearly without any disadvantage in movement etc. But you have 100% angle control, and can if you like control pressure as well, with a spring attached to the rod.

I have tested in pro environment with high tungsten alloy steel knife and you can reach up to 3 times more edge retention (compared to an usefull finish with maybe 5k Chosera) with edges at HHT 4-5 (cooked about 350 meals with this knife and it was still able to cut tomato skin). With free hand sharpening (i got about 15 years of pro kitchen sharpening knowledge) on this level of sharpness the knife gets dull within a few meals.

Greets Sebastian.
 
Seb: Yeah, this system look quite nice. Moreover, you can use the stones that you want, including Jnat. The question is how can you get it ?
 
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