Overwhelmed with knife choices, please help me :) 210mm Gyuto

Hi All - been doing a lot of research and I'm getting overwhelmed with the options available. This is my first "real" knife purchase so I want to do it right. Can you give me some options?

Gyuto, 210mm, no preference on handle, I like the Damascus finish, price range under $200. This will be my everyday knife but I will be taking care of it.

So far, I went to Northwest Cutlery in Chicago (where I live) and they recommended:
http://www.japanny.com/collections/...layer-damascus-gyuto-chef-s-knife-gyuto-210mm

japanny.com also recommend the above and the below

Also:
http://www.japanny.com/collections/...mascus-swedish-steel-gyuto-chef-s-knife-180mm

Thanks in advance appreciate it!!!

You should probably fill out the form.

LOCATION
USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? Chef/Gyuto

Are you right or left handed? Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? Either handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? 210mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? $199



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) All purpose

What knife, if any, are you replacing? Cheap chef knife

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) Rock, Chop, Walk

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.) Sharpness, durability

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)? Love damascus

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)? Don’t like a super light blade knife

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)? N/A

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? 6 – 12 months



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) Yes

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) No

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.) No

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) No

Welcome to kkf!

First, I'd say that is a pretty good price on the ST. Second, I'm curious how you will maintain this knife? It says you don't sharpen and not interested, this knife will be worthless in short order without a way to sharpen...it's also one of the more difficult steels to cleanly sharpen (deburr) and will not do well with a manual sharpener. If you are planning on sending it out to be sharpened on waterstones then not a problem but otherwise I'd recommend against any J-knife. Also, my guess is that 6-12 months may be a bit optimistic with your cutting styles referenced...pm steel may be an alternative but would blow the budget.

chinacats said:

Welcome to kkf!

First, I'd say that is a pretty good price on the ST. Second, I'm curious how you will maintain this knife? It says you don't sharpen and not interested, this knife will be worthless in short order without a way to sharpen...it's also one of the more difficult steels to cleanly sharpen (deburr) and will not do well with a manual sharpener. If you are planning on sending it out to be sharpened on waterstones then not a problem but otherwise I'd recommend against any J-knife. Also, my guess is that 6-12 months may be a bit optimistic with your cutting styles referenced...pm steel may be an alternative but would blow the budget.

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I have a cutlery shop - Northwest Cutlery in Chicago that is right next to me - they are well respected and charge a very low fee to sharpen knives so I can take it there every couple of months. Any other recommendations? I haven't found much info on the ST's on this site.

Something like this would be nice...though may be a bit light for your tastes?

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...ducts/gonbei-210mm-hammered-damascus-wa-gyuto

My only advice is to be patient and find something you really like...chances are you'll likely be blown away by whatever you get. I would also suggest looking through the b/s/t as sometimes new knives pop up at pretty good deals.

Only ST knife I've tried is below, a very good knife but not at all similar to the ones you linked.

http://www.knivesandstones.com/sakai-takayuki-syousin-sakura-wa-gyuto-240mm/

chinacats said:

Something like this would be nice...though may be a bit light for your tastes?

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...ducts/gonbei-210mm-hammered-damascus-wa-gyuto

My only advice is to be patient and find something you really like...chances are you'll likely be blown away by whatever you get. I would also suggest looking through the b/s/t as sometimes new knives pop up at pretty good deals.

Only ST knife I've tried is below, a very good knife but not at all similar to the ones you linked.

http://www.knivesandstones.com/sakai-takayuki-syousin-sakura-wa-gyuto-240mm/

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Thank you. Related to the Sakai's I linked, I can't tell if those knives are manufacturered by someone else and ST is just branding them?

I believe ST is known for their hand-made knives that I linked, guessing the ones you linked are just generic and re-branded as they look similar to other western handled dammy J-knives I've seen, I'm sure others will be more helpful than me...in fact if you pm James he can explain the ST background as he happens to be a vendor of those knives as well as the ones linked below.

best cutting damascus (or any knife maybe) by far at that price point is blue 2 Tanaka (from James @ Knivesandstones.com)...you said you don't need stainless and this would fit the bill but should note that the damascus cladding is very reactive. Benefit of buying from James (forum vendor) is very nicely upgraded handles and easing of spine and choil (makes the knife much more comfortable in hand).

Sorry, link above is 240...here is the 210.

try again, the last one I linked is stainless clad...this is the full carbon damascus
http://www.knivesandstones.com/tana...uto-210mm-with-custom-octagonal-ebony-handle/

If you're coming from a cheap knife, almost any Japanese knife will probably knock your socks off. Only caveat is that if you're not sharpening your own knives, you probably want to buy from a retailer that ships sharpened knives. Some jknives don't come very sharp right out of the box.

milkbaby said:

If you're coming from a cheap knife, almost any Japanese knife will probably knock your socks off. Only caveat is that if you're not sharpening your own knives, you probably want to buy from a retailer that ships sharpened knives. Some jknives don't come very sharp right out of the box.

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Thank you, makes sense. I'm hoping to get some direct recommendations as there is just so much out there and for a noob like me I get lost. The shop that I referenced sharpens knives for about $5 so not factoring the initial sharpening into the equation.

I have two words: Tanaka or Takamura
(I guess that's three words?)
Both fit your price range although neither are damascus. They are high performance knives from two very respected bladesmiths.

Tanaka B2 with ss cladding and ebony handle from K&S. There's still some 210 gyutos left. When these came in they went fast. I have the ginsan version and will buy the B2 SS the minute the 240 size comes back in stock.
http://www.knivesandstones.com/tana...lad-210mm-with-custom-octagonal-ebony-handle/

Takamura R2 210 gyuto is a very popular choice and for a good reason. You can find it at Mtc kitchen. (But it is very light.)

Takamura makes a very nice VG10 version too.

Tanaka also makes a good and affordable VG10 damascus version.

You can rock and chop with all of these, but if you need to walk I would recommend using something else for that.

suntanlinus said:

Thank you, makes sense. I'm hoping to get some direct recommendations as there is just so much out there and for a noob like me I get lost. The shop that I referenced sharpens knives for about $5 so not factoring the initial sharpening into the equation.

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IMO, if they sharpen for $5, you won't want them touching anything nice...meaning they are belt sharpening and nicer knives deserve stones...an inexpensive synthetic rock (waterstone) and a bit of patience will yield extremely sharp edges with minimal effort.

If you want to try something really cool have a look at Munetoshi 210. The Itinomonn SemiStainless 210 would be a great pick too. Munetoshi is a wide bevel workhorse knife (I have 240 and love it) and really unique IMO. Itinomonn SemiStainless has a bit thinner, convex grind and it a great all-around gyuto. Both are very good values.

Another option for a more workhorse knife would be Zakuri 210. Should you be able to spend a little more, than you should definitely check out Kochi knives from JKI. I have the 180 K-tip kurouchi carbon-clad santoku and that knife while having some weight is incredibly thin behind the edge and just glides through everything.

Definitely a +1 for the Itinomonn Stain-Less. :thumbsup:

For $5 they must just be grinding it against a hard wheel, losing a lot of steel for sub-par sharpening. Even if you do not sharpen yourself there are a lot better options.

pretty sure they offer "hand sharpening" $25 for japanese knives.

+1 on what mc2442 said. If you do not plan to sharpen the knife yourself, you would do much better using service that actually knowsd how to sharpen this kind of knife (e.g. Jon from JKI but there surely are many others) - or even find a kind KKF member that lives close by. If you use that $5 you have a high chance to be sorry when you get the knife back. These knives need to be sharpened by hand on stones and that is going to cost more than $5. I personally think that getting a cheaper combo stone (one side 1000 and the other 6000 grits - give or take) would be a better option in the long run and would make you less dependent on edge retention (because 6 months is a stretch whatever way you cut it)

Akifusa. Not sure if it's the same as JKIs Gesshin Kagero. You could try japanesechef.com.au. I'm not sure if they have any left (their website isn't always up to date on out of stock items). At current exchange rates, it's just under 200 usd delivered I think. JKIs Kagero is a bit more but comes with a saya I think.

I also really like my new Shiro Kamo in R2 from James at K&S but the 210 is a bit over budget.

mc2442 said:

For $5 they must just be grinding it against a hard wheel, losing a lot of steel for sub-par sharpening. Even if you do not sharpen yourself there are a lot better options.

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agreed, I'll see what other options they have for sharpening

anyone have thoughts on this knife? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tanaka-kitc...407b758&pid=100033&rk=2&rkt=8&sd=142067365823

can't tell if this is the same tanaka available elsewhere for much more....

suntanlinus said:

anyone have thoughts on this knife? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tanaka-kitc...407b758&pid=100033&rk=2&rkt=8&sd=142067365823

can't tell if this is the same tanaka available elsewhere for much more....

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almost same, same maker, same 'base model' but cheap plastic top of handle, edges not rounded will need a bunch of work out of the box including a good sharpening--but underneath it all, yes it is the same knife. If you have the skillset and the tools you can make it into the same knife you'd pay more $ for but knife out of the box will be nowhere near as impressive. The cheap handle being the most annoying...you can round the spine/choil with a file and some sandpaper and give it a good sharpening but then you'll have more time and money invested and likely a much more sloppy knife unless you've done it before.

bottom line, same knife but not really the close to the same knife...:laugh:

FWIW, there have been some issues ordering from MM (same vendor you linked on ebay)...I've had no issues ordering from them in the past but others have been less fortunate...ebay should protect you but here is a recent thread:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...00-Atoma-Experience-Ordering-from-Metalmaster

Too late to edit, but one is a project knife the other is a completed project.

I'm glad I asked, makes sense, I surely don't want to screw it up. This whole knife thing is pretty amazing, never thought I'd think they were so cool!

suntanlinus said:

anyone have thoughts on this knife? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tanaka-kitc...407b758&pid=100033&rk=2&rkt=8&sd=142067365823

can't tell if this is the same tanaka available elsewhere for much more....

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The one James sells at Knives & Stones has "upgrades" worth at the very least the $50 difference in price versus MM. Read what James says about his version here: http://www.knivesandstones.com/blog/difference-between-kns-tanaka-and-regular-tanaka/

In my own opinion, I don't place as great a value on the rounding of the spine and choil because I will do that stuff myself. However, a handle that nice is worth at least $100 installed, probably more like at least $150 from most people who would make and install one for you. Some people don't care about the handle, but I can't stand a handle with a plastic ferrule especially when it has a big step in diameter between the wood and the ferrule.

yep makes sense!

One thing to consider is that the Tanaka B2 damascus is very reactive. It's a sublime cutting machine, but some are turned of by the reactivity. I'm fine with mine. Just a heads up. That's why I didn't recommend it. Also since there is still some SS clad versions available, it's easier maintenance wise and maybe a better option for J-knife intro.

If the damascus is a must then the VG10 damascus is good choice.

i spoke to Jon at JKI and ended up ordered the Gesshin Uraki 240mm. can't wait!

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/products/gesshin-uraku-240mm-stainless-wa-gyuto

Thanks everyone

suntanlinus said:

i spoke to Jon at JKI and ended up ordered the Gesshin Uraki 240mm. can't wait!

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/products/gesshin-uraku-240mm-stainless-wa-gyuto

Thanks everyone

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Sweet! That's always a highly recommended knife... :doublethumbsup:

Good choice! :thumbsup:

milkbaby said:

The one James sells at Knives & Stones has "upgrades" worth at the very least the $50 difference in price versus MM. Read what James says about his version here: http://www.knivesandstones.com/blog/difference-between-kns-tanaka-and-regular-tanaka/

In my own opinion, I don't place as great a value on the rounding of the spine and choil because I will do that stuff myself. However, a handle that nice is worth at least $100 installed, probably more like at least $150 from most people who would make and install one for you. Some people don't care about the handle, but I can't stand a handle with a plastic ferrule especially when it has a big step in diameter between the wood and the ferrule.

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Have to second this one. I have 240mm and 270mm B2's and a 240mm VG-10 from Metalmaster. The first two were some of my first J-Knife buys and the VG-10 I bought specifically to re-handle. I've re-handled two of them and refinished the spine and choil myself, which was easy with this 3M sand paper. That said, the 270mm B2 I got from James at KNS was better in pretty much every way, with the ebony handle being an absolute steal. On top of that, his customer service is absolutely top notch, and I received my Sunday night order (Australia --> San Diego) on Wednesday afternoon. Not much more you can ask for. :doublethumbsup: