Instant stock confessional.

I saw this today at some random clearance warehouse and I couldn't really resist. I question whether or not I'll be using it before the expiry date lol (1 yr from today's date)



anybody else guilty? :clown: I've been meaning to try out some of the mushroom stocks you can find at asian grocers. David Chang says they're pretty good.

so who's got the rocks to own up to doing this... :wink: (behind is 5.5lb of sea salt for a bit under $1/lb... love my asian grocers)

I'm guilty of using this at home quite a bit:


It's awesome because the taste is good (nothing like the stock cubes), and most importantly: you can still scoop it when frozen. So logistics-wise it's awesome.

For proper veal-stock based stuff:


I'm sorry, but as a homecook it's just not viable to make my own veal stock. This stuff, although expensive, is actually pretty good.
Neither of them are anything like the flavoured salt you get in supermarkets.

:spankarse:

In my defense... I buy this stuff at a wholesaler, and apparently plenty of restaurants buy it as well. Lazy chefs I guess... :eyebrow:

its been done, especially when I was in college, I havent boughten any for a while though, generally its a oh f im out of stock situation or something like seafood stock which I never make

i know it wont be a popular sentiment but i am a big advocate of better cooking through chemistry. so far, I have read, that instant stock is chemically indifferent from something you'd produce in your own kitchen. The gel ones obviously lend some mouthfeel but really that's the only thing you miss out on with instant stock.

now, I don't always have time or money to make stock. From 9 dollars I can get 1kg of instant stock (so many L), for that same nine dollars I cannot get more than one decent sized bird, from which I might yield 0.5-1L of stock. no brainer.

Obviously there is some tradeoff for loss in flavour/overall quality/DIY bliss. But I'm cooking for myself, I want to have time for other hobbies too.

If you add that stuff to fresh made dashi it takes to a new level.

spoiledbroth said:

i know it wont be a popular sentiment but i am a big advocate of better cooking through chemistry. so far, I have read, that instant stock is chemically indifferent from something you'd produce in your own kitchen. The gel ones obviously lend some mouthfeel but really that's the only thing you miss out on with instant stock.

now, I don't always have time or money to make stock. From 9 dollars I can get 1kg of instant stock (so many L), for that same nine dollars I cannot get more than one decent sized bird, from which I might yield 0.5-1L of stock. no brainer.

Obviously there is some tradeoff for loss in flavour/overall quality/DIY bliss. But I'm cooking for myself, I want to have time for other hobbies too.

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It all depends on the quality you're buying IMO. Over here the stock cubes really have very little to do with actual chicken or beef stock. They're just a product made by fermenting yeast and could almost be considered vegetarian. Although it still can be of use if you want to beef up water for cooking pasta or rice. The restaurant stuff can be pretty good though (if pricy). It's a process that does lend itself to industrial scaling.

panda said:

If you add that stuff to fresh made dashi it takes to a new level.

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I have to admit that I sometimes spike my proper chicken stock with some of the stock jelly. Gives it more depth...

I really like (fairly fancypants) packets of instant dashi as a cure for chicken or as seasoning in fresh sausages.

spoiledbroth said:

I saw this today at some random clearance warehouse and I couldn't really resist. I question whether or not I'll be using it before the expiry date lol (1 yr from today's date)



anybody else guilty? :clown: I've been meaning to try out some of the mushroom stocks you can find at asian grocers. David Chang says they're pretty good.

so who's got the rocks to own up to doing this... :wink: (behind is 5.5lb of sea salt for a bit under $1/lb... love my asian grocers)

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You got lucky finding that hondashi, it's a great product. I mix some in soy sauce when I season spicy tuna rolls.

I used to add a little bit to a stock and adjust salt and other seasonings accordingly. Nowadays I don't have it in my cupboard, although I've been using a lot of herbamare with other dishes such as eggs and chicken

"They're just a product made by fermenting yeast and could almost be considered vegetarian"

In which case, just using nutritional yeast, marmite etc and bringing your own aromatics could turn out more flexible ...

This works pretty well in a pinch.

I always have that stuff at hand since I seldom make beef stock and don't have much space for storing stock long term, I find it pretty OK fro beefing up the flavour.

dwalker said:

This works pretty well in a pinch.View attachment 34561

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heyyy I am glad to hear from Mr.s Panda and Theory on this! Maybe I will have to order katsuobushi and go to the real asian grocer and get some konbu ....

anyway I think you might be surprised by the things fermentation of otherwise banal ingredients yields. It is probably true that some lower quality instant stock doesn't really resemble stock at all. I will try to find the exact passage from Herve This I am thinking of with regard to instant stock... could be I am imagining things but I'm afeared not.

dwalker said:

This works pretty well in a pinch.View attachment 34561

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Have definitely used that as well

As much as I'd love to always have homemade stock on hand . . . sometimes my day job (i.e., what allows me to spend my discretionary income on j knives) gets a bit in the way.

spoiledbroth said:

heyyy I am glad to hear from Mr.s Panda and Theory on this! Maybe I will have to order katsuobushi and go to the real asian grocer and get some konbu ....

anyway I think you might be surprised by the things fermentation of otherwise banal ingredients yields. It is probably true that some lower quality instant stock doesn't really resemble stock at all. I will try to find the exact passage from Herve This I am thinking of with regard to instant stock... could be I am imagining things but I'm afeared not.

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Kombu wise, I haven't found much difference among the different brands, if somebody thinks otherwise, please I am all ears.

I put chicken freeze dried/dehydrated chicken bullion on chicken legs/thighs before baking. I recently used an oyster/mushroom msg powder I got from an asian grocery story for a cream broccoli soup and it was amazing. You could not taste the powder in the aforementioned flavors but it was deep.

I do have the same dashi pellets but I haven't used them yet, maybe they would be good in grits?

I never use instant or store bought stock anymore -- I started making my own some time ago and never looked back. That said, dashi and mushroom are probably the two that I would try; since I make dashi from dried, preserved, salted ingredients to begin with, a good instant dashi from the Asian market might not be that much different. I haven't gotten mushroom stock there yet but if I'm going to use some dried mushrooms anyway, as long as there isn't too much salt it's worth a shot.

My workplace does use concentrated and instant stocks, I assume either because of the ingredient cost or labor cost of making real stock and demi.

Using it as a seasoning instead of salt or in a rub sounds good though, like adding porcini soaking liquid to a braise or stew. Again, I'd try it with dashi like Panda said. I remember using the BtB chicken base to season mashed cauliflower at least once with good results.

Lobster base, Dashi kombu, Yuzu juice, dried Bonito flakes. Used to make stocks at work, at home not practical. Like to shop at the Japanese grocery store. Also watch the Japanese cooking shows on NHK world, they make some simple tasty sauces.

When peel jumbo shrimp, save the shells cook in a pan only 5mins. wt.oil & white wine. Save liquid for sauce. Lobster base & Yuzu ju. one of my quick sauces for seafood.

If I have time, I enjoy making it fresh but the difference for me between real stock and instant are the nutrients that come from cooking real ingredients, even if the flavor is comparable. That said, I actually tend to use instant quite often and my stocks actually come out costing quite a bit so it varies.

I have to say though in regards to MSG laden instant stocks vs from scratch. I do prefer from scratch, if I used too much salt in the beginning of a cook or I am too heavy handed with the bullion cube then my saliva becomes super thick (sorry if that's gross) but I know there was some MSG allergy controversy yada yada yada, and I just had to say I prefer the real deal, I've just been lazy lately.

DDPslice said:

I have to say though in regards to MSG laden instant stocks vs from scratch. I do prefer from scratch, if I used too much salt in the beginning of a cook or I am too heavy handed with the bullion cube then my saliva becomes super thick (sorry if that's gross) but I know there was some MSG allergy controversy yada yada yada, and I just had to say I prefer the real deal, I've just been lazy lately.

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I'm no chemist... but isn't the whole point of long cooked stocks to denature the proteins into glutamate? Effectively creating 'natural MSG'. I'm not so sure whether it makes much of a biological difference... though I agree most instant stocks are chemical products that often have little to do with the product they portray to imitate.

Jovidah said:

I'm no chemist... but isn't the whole point of long cooked stocks to denature the proteins into glutamate? Effectively creating 'natural MSG'. I'm not so sure whether it makes much of a biological difference... though I agree most instant stocks are chemical products that often have little to do with the product they portray to imitate.

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Glutamate is just one of the 20 natural amino acids present in proteins, one of the most common ones but by no means you can break a protein into just glutamate. Also, denaturalizing a protein refers mostly to "unwrapping it from it's naturally "folded" structure. Aggressive denaturalization can lead to the breakage of some bonds into smaller peptides (read smaller proteins) but you would be hard pressed in a kitchen to break a protein into it's constituent amino acids. What denaturalization can do is change the structure and thus, texture and flavour of the said proteins.

You denaturalize proteins when cooking an egg for example, but don't break said proteins.

Any cooking ingredient that comes with MSG, emulsifiers, thickeners... added (that aren't naturally in it, as they would with a fermented product), I think, sabotages the learner - if a dish needs MSG, or an emulsifier or thickener added, I would rather want it to FAIL and teach me that it needs these things than being saved by accident...

valgard said:

Glutamate is just one of the 20 natural amino acids present in proteins, one of the most common ones but by no means you can break a protein into just glutamate. Also, denaturalizing a protein refers mostly to "unwrapping it from it's naturally "folded" structure. Aggressive denaturalization can lead to the breakage of some bonds into smaller peptides (read smaller proteins) but you would be hard pressed in a kitchen to break a protein into it's constituent amino acids. What denaturalization can do is change the structure and thus, texture and flavour of the said proteins.

You denaturalize proteins when cooking an egg for example, but don't break said proteins.

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As I said... I'm not an expert and maybe I didn't use the right terms. But there must be something going on to change the flavour in the stock and create that 'oompf'. Same goes for some other stews that just get 'better' after hitting the stove for 12 hours.
Same thing happens when you age cheese...at some point (for example in parmiggiano) proteins turn into glutamate.

LifeByA1000Cuts said:

Any cooking ingredient that comes with MSG, emulsifiers, thickeners... added (that aren't naturally in it, as they would with a fermented product), I think, sabotages the learner - if a dish needs MSG, or an emulsifier or thickener added, I would rather want it to FAIL and teach me that it needs these things than being saved by accident...

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It's a fair point...but remember that a lot of 'traditional' cooking does the same thing. Adding anchovies, parmiggiano, fish sauce or soy sauce to a dish is effecitvely a means of adding more naturally occuring MSG.
Making a roux is effectively creating a thickening agent from the flour. Egg yolks are often used as an emulsifier.

I agree, using completely readymade stuff keeps you from understanding what you're really doing... but so do a lot of traditional recipes.

Yep - but then it is an intrinsic property of the anchovies or soy sauce, not a manufactured property.

Anchovies, Worcestershire sauce all natural . Making stocks is the foundation of classical cooking. saving bones, shells, fish heads no waste possibilities for sauces endless. Asians simmer pork bones for noodle stock.

Or even tomatoes (probably the reason why a sauce/soup made from tomatoes and aromatics can still taste great without using any stock or stock cube)....

Not to be a smartass, but soy sauce and worcestershire sauce aren't exactly naturally occuring. They are fermented recipes. That's really not all that different from how some of the artificial stuff is made. They've just been around longer.

In general I agree with your low view of all the overproduced industrial crap - I perform better without it - but I do think the distinction from some of the more traditional products is rather artificial and overstated.

College Inn used to make Bold chicken and beef stocks that were pretty good, but I believe not so natural. That was my go-to for store bought stuff. There's an east coast supermarket chain called ShopRite that has a house brand organic chicken stock that's surprisingly not bad.