What knife would you recommend (questionnaire)?

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M

marmozet

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Messages
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LOCATION
What country are you in?

Australia


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Chef's Knife

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Either is fine

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
210-240mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Stainless clad or stainless

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
US$250


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Home, used every day.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Vegetables are the main thing, carrots, cucumbers as well as cheese and meat in that order of application.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Global 20cm chef knife

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Chop and rock.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Maintaining sharpness at 90% for the longest time.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Better stainless resistance preferred

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Light to medium preffered

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Medium to high ease of use…happen to sharpen, I enjoy that.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
Good to excellent edge retention.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Wood / bamboo with some synthetic.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes defintely.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes.


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
I am kinda interested in Aogami 2 / Blue 2 in stainless clad as well as R2 steels however open to any suggestions...
 
Should have included the Itinomonn from JNS as well. Great knife, great value. Free shipping for orders over (approx) 180 USD
 
great suggestion daveb funny that was one of the ones I was considering. Next question, what's your view of Blue #2 SS Clad vs R2 / SG2 stainless (like a cheap Takamura Migaki R2)?
 
daveb said:
Should have included the Itinomonn from JNS as well. Great knife, great value. Free shipping for orders over (approx) 180 USD
Click to expand...

Can I get JNS Itionomonn shipped to Australia? That would be great...
 
The carbon steel will be easier to sharpen but wont last quite as long and the stainless is significantly less likely to discolour, depending where you live it might be worth stopping in to James shop and playing with a few of his offerings, both of those knives are amazing, as is the kurosaki and sukenari blades, most of what James sells is stellar stuff and hes a gem to deal with(on vacation till the 20th so everything is 5% off, which isnt a huge savings but 10-15 bucks usd is two steaks for the grill.
 
Never held a Takamura and don't recall working with R2 so prefer not to comment. Remember being underwhelmed with an SG2 knife but don't even remember which. I have the Tanaka Ginsan and have used the Itinomonn. The Tanaka is my favorite knife ever in the 200USD range.

The regular Aussie crowd should be along soon. They may know of other jewels available. But they'll probably try and get you to buy a Shig first.:cool2:

And JNS will ship to Oz, that's how most of the Shigs got there.
 
First, I will point out that Japanese knives are generally not really designed to rock chop. They have fairly thin edges which are vulnerable to chipping if you apply a lateral force (like rotating the edge while in contact with the board while rock chopping). They also often have flatter profiles that don't support rock chopping as well as (say) a Wustie. Other cutting styles (e.g.: push slice, draw slice, locomotive slice) tend to bring out their best anyway.

I haven't used any of the Tanakas, but you rarely hear a bad word said about any of the K&S ones (the other ones available apparently have ordinary fit & finish but the blades are still apparently great cutters). The blue 2 and ginsanko ones both have a lot of good reports. I've been toying with buying a ginsanko since they came back in stock... waiting to see if a 270 comes in.

I have the Shiro Kamo Syousin Suminagashi. Great knife. Thin behind the edge, good food release. The R2 steel gets very sharp and stays that way for a long time. The only potential issue is it's a tall blade- I've only ever heard of this being a problem on one occasion. Many others (including me) like a tall blade.

If you want a cheaper PM steel knife, the Tojiro HSPS is also worth a look. Not as good a knife as the Shiro Kamo though, IMO (although it does have a little more belly for rock chopping).

It's also worth looking at the Akifusa. SRS15 PM stainless. nice grind- thin behind the edge with OK food release.

My impression- blue 2 is a little easier to sharpen than the R2/SG2 (that I've used) but R2 is not that hard. SRS15 is similar to R2. In my relatively inexpert hands, they both get as sharp as each other (still silly sharp for a kitchen knife). A good sharpener can probably make blue 2 a bit sharper. I can't. Edge retention seems longer on R2, but we are talking many weeks worth of home use either way. Both are good options. Obviously R2 is stainless and B2 isn't. What's more important is probably how the knife is made. The heat treatment of the steel and the blade profile and grind are what really determines how a knife performs. Hence the saying "buy a maker, not a steel". I wonder whether a poor HT might be behind daveb's experience with SG2/R2. I've had positive experiences with it in two knives (Shiro Kamo and Ryusen).

I've never handled any of the JNS knives. On the forums, they seem to be generally very well regarded in terms of performance and value, although are often described as "rustic".
 
I have the Tanaka Ginsan Nashiji and Blue 2 Damascus, both 240, along with several R2 knives, including the Shiro Kamo.

The Tanaka Ginsan feels a lighter and more nimble knife than the B2, they are both great cutters.

R2 is a little harder to sharpen, but it's not really any meaningful difference.
R2 gets stinky sharp and holds it's edge significantly longer.
I've only sharpened the Shiro Kamo once, most of my R2 sharpening has been with a Takamura Hana.

B2 is easy to sharpen, the ginsan was pretty easy too - only sharpened that once so far too.

They are all really great knives, guess it depends on your preference really.

The Ginsan is the nimblest, lightest knife, R2 has noticeably better edge retention.
 
Nice suggestions! :doublethumbsup:

I have most of the recommended knives and use them daily. The one I don't have the Tanaka B2 SS I badly want to ad to my crew. Though no one knows when they'll be available again. I have the Tanaka ginsan, but it's the migaki version not the nashiji. They have the same profile (with the new grind nashiji), but grind and weight is different.

This is how I see them:

Profile:
1. Itinomonn
2. Tanaka Ginsan
3. Takamura R2
4. Syousin Suminigashi

Edge retention
1. Takamura and Syousin Suminigashi
2. Tanaka Ginsan and Itinomonn

Geometry
1. Itinomonn
2. Syousin Suminigashi
3. Tanaka ginsan migaki (can't comment on the nashiji version)
4. Takamura

Ease of sharpening
1. Itinomonn
2. Tanaka
3. Syousin Suminigashi and Takamura

Weight
165g Itinomonn
198g Tanaka ginsan nashiji (from someone who owns one of the new grind version)
200g Syousin Suminigashi
(147g Takamura, but it's the only 210 so can't really compare.)

I have the Tanaka nakiri B2 and it is a dream to sharpen. Easiest of the bunch. All you have to do is look at the stones and it just seems to get sharp, But the edge retention isn't as good as the others here.

They are very different type of knives, but all are very thin behind the edge and cut great. IMO the Itinomonn Stain-Less is the best allrounder with the Tanaka ginsan trailing very close behind and the Tanaka has the nicest handle. The Syousin Suminigashi is the least nimble, but also the most powerful cutter of the group. With the Itinomonn you get the best of both worlds. It sharpens almost like a carbon and the core steel slowly develops a carbon like patina.

You really can't go wrong with any of them.
 
JaVa said:
Nice suggestions! :doublethumbsup:

I have most of the recommended knives and use them daily. The one I don't have the Tanaka B2 SS I badly want to ad to my crew. Though no one knows when they'll be available again. I have the Tanaka ginsan, but it's the migaki version not the nashiji. They have the same profile (with the new grind nashiji), but grind and weight is different.

This is how I see them:

Profile:
1. Itinomonn
2. Tanaka Ginsan
3. Takamura R2
4. Syousin Suminigashi

Edge retention
1. Takamura and Syousin Suminigashi
2. Tanaka Ginsan and Itinomonn

Geometry
1. Itinomonn
2. Syousin Suminigashi
3. Tanaka ginsan migaki (can't comment on the nashiji version)
4. Takamura

Ease of sharpening
1. Itinomonn
2. Tanaka
3. Syousin Suminigashi and Takamura

Weight
165g Itinomonn
198g Tanaka ginsan nashiji (from someone who owns one of the new grind version)
200g Syousin Suminigashi
(147g Takamura, but it's the only 210 so can't really compare.)

I have the Tanaka nakiri B2 and it is a dream to sharpen. Easiest of the bunch. All you have to do is look at the stones and it just seems to get sharp, But the edge retention isn't as good as the others here.

They are very different type of knives, but all are very thin behind the edge and cut great. IMO the Itinomonn Stain-Less is the best allrounder with the Tanaka ginsan trailing very close behind and the Tanaka has the nicest handle. The Syousin Suminigashi is the least nimble, but also the most powerful cutter of the group. With the Itinomonn you get the best of both worlds. It sharpens almost like a carbon and the core steel slowly develops a carbon like patina.

You really can't go wrong with any of them.
Click to expand...

What he said and awesome comparison.

I have only tried the Itinomonn 240 in this list and it is great. Although I am soooooo tempted by the Tanaka Ginsan. I like heavier knives so this could be ideal for me to try!
 
Anyone,

What are the differences between the current Tanaka ginsan nashiji (newer?) Vs. the Tanaka ginsan migaki (older and not currently offered?)

Thank you kindly.
 
JaVa said:
Nice suggestions! :doublethumbsup:

I have most of the recommended knives and use them daily. The one I don't have the Tanaka B2 SS I badly want to ad to my crew. Though no one knows when they'll be available again. I have the Tanaka ginsan, but it's the migaki version not the nashiji. They have the same profile (with the new grind nashiji), but grind and weight is different.

This is how I see them:

Profile:
1. Itinomonn
2. Tanaka Ginsan
3. Takamura R2
4. Syousin Suminigashi

Edge retention
1. Takamura and Syousin Suminigashi
2. Tanaka Ginsan and Itinomonn

Geometry
1. Itinomonn
2. Syousin Suminigashi
3. Tanaka ginsan migaki (can't comment on the nashiji version)
4. Takamura

Ease of sharpening
1. Itinomonn
2. Tanaka
3. Syousin Suminigashi and Takamura

Weight
165g Itinomonn
198g Tanaka ginsan nashiji (from someone who owns one of the new grind version)
200g Syousin Suminigashi
(147g Takamura, but it's the only 210 so can't really compare.)

I have the Tanaka nakiri B2 and it is a dream to sharpen. Easiest of the bunch. All you have to do is look at the stones and it just seems to get sharp, But the edge retention isn't as good as the others here.

They are very different type of knives, but all are very thin behind the edge and cut great. IMO the Itinomonn Stain-Less is the best allrounder with the Tanaka ginsan trailing very close behind and the Tanaka has the nicest handle. The Syousin Suminigashi is the least nimble, but also the most powerful cutter of the group. With the Itinomonn you get the best of both worlds. It sharpens almost like a carbon and the core steel slowly develops a carbon like patina.

You really can't go wrong with any of them.
Click to expand...

Great list and summary Java and I particlulalry like your comments from personal experience. I'm going to look into all of them.
 
add said:
Anyone,

What are the differences between the current Tanaka ginsan nashiji (newer?) Vs. the Tanaka ginsan migaki (older and not currently offered?)

Thank you kindly.
Click to expand...

Never held either, but from previous threads, I think the migaki was a very thin almost laser grind and the najishi is a thicker, more workhorse grind (without being a fat knife). Both seem to get a lot of love from their owners.
 
Nemo said:
First, I will point out that Japanese knives are generally not really designed to rock chop. They have fairly thin edges which are vulnerable to chipping if you apply a lateral force (like rotating the edge while in contact with the board while rock chopping). They also often have flatter profiles that don't support rock chopping as well as (say) a Wustie. Other cutting styles (e.g.: push slice, draw slice, locomotive slice) tend to bring out their best anyway.

I haven't used any of the Tanakas, but you rarely hear a bad word said about any of the K&S ones (the other ones available apparently have ordinary fit & finish but the blades are still apparently great cutters). The blue 2 and ginsanko ones both have a lot of good reports. I've been toying with buying a ginsanko since they came back in stock... waiting to see if a 270 comes in.

I have the Shiro Kamo Syousin Suminagashi. Great knife. Thin behind the edge, good food release. The R2 steel gets very sharp and stays that way for a long time. The only potential issue is it's a tall blade- I've only ever heard of this being a problem on one occasion. Many others (including me) like a tall blade.

If you want a cheaper PM steel knife, the Tojiro HSPS is also worth a look. Not as good a knife as the Shiro Kamo though, IMO (although it does have a little more belly for rock chopping).

It's also worth looking at the Akifusa. SRS15 PM stainless. nice grind- thin behind the edge with OK food release.

My impression- blue 2 is a little easier to sharpen than the R2/SG2 (that I've used) but R2 is not that hard. SRS15 is similar to R2. In my relatively inexpert hands, they both get as sharp as each other (still silly sharp for a kitchen knife). A good sharpener can probably make blue 2 a bit sharper. I can't. Edge retention seems longer on R2, but we are talking many weeks worth of home use either way. Both are good options. Obviously R2 is stainless and B2 isn't. What's more important is probably how the knife is made. The heat treatment of the steel and the blade profile and grind are what really determines how a knife performs. Hence the saying "buy a maker, not a steel". I wonder whether a poor HT might be behind daveb's experience with SG2/R2. I've had positive experiences with it in two knives (Shiro Kamo and Ryusen).

I've never handled any of the JNS knives. On the forums, they seem to be generally very well regarded in terms of performance and value, although are often described as "rustic".
Click to expand...

Great advice there Nemo your comment about 3 week retentionfor both B2 and R2 for me makes a lot of sense. I'm not working the knives hours a day. I'm torn between B2 SS Clad and R2.
 
FWIW, in my use retention is probably over 4 weeks for blue 2 and at least a couple of months for R2, with a very quick strop every week or 2 (just 3 passes usually) to touch up the edge.
 
Nemo said:
FWIW, in my use retention is probably over 4 weeks for blue 2 and at least a couple of months for R2, with a very quick strop every week or 2 (just 3 passes usually) to touch up the edge.
Click to expand...

Very nice that's great to know, I can live with both of those. I have started out with a beginner's knife a Tanaka b2 180mm KU and just finished oiling the wooden handle. I've used it once and it already shines over my Globals which were sharpened on 3000 grit a week ago. Can't believe it. If that edges stays on the B2 I won't be going back.
Next knife will likely be 210mm or 240mm...however B2 or R2 is such a dilemma.
Appreciate your input, I'm already enjoying the process.
 
IMO, unless you need a stainless knife, the choice of steel (R2 vs B2 vs others) is less important than who made the knife. HT, profile and grind geometry are much more important to a knife's performance.
 
marmozet said:
Very nice that's great to know, I can live with both of those. I have started out with a beginner's knife a Tanaka b2 180mm KU and just finished oiling the wooden handle. I've used it once and it already shines over my Globals which were sharpened on 3000 grit a week ago. Can't believe it. If that edges stays on the B2 I won't be going back.
Next knife will likely be 210mm or 240mm...however B2 or R2 is such a dilemma.
Appreciate your input, I'm already enjoying the process.
Click to expand...

If you want 210 go with Takamura Hana from Chefs Armoury - they label it as the Takamura Octagonal, I think.

If you want 240 go with the Shiro Kamo from James.

😉
 
Ok I've been taking on board all the suggestions here. Question now is in terms of sharpening how does B2 SS clad compare with R2 SG2 stainless?

My reasoning is, if B2 SS Clad is easier to sharpen and both B2 and R2 keep a good edge for weeks then I might go for the one that's easier to sharpen. Not sure how the SS Clad affects the B2 when you sharpen it...seriously considering the Gehei as a beginner...
 
Both are acceptably easy to sharpen. I suspect easier than your global (I don't know for sure, I've never sharpened one). The blue 2 is easier than R2 but probably not by an important amount.

R2 edges last longer, so you get less practice. Blue 2 is a bit easier to sharpen.

SS cladding on both R2 and blue 2 is soft, so should grind away fairly easily when it comes time to thin the knife. Like all cladding, you can scratch it if your angles aren't consistent. Don't worry about it. The knife is a tool.

Both are very good steels when given a good HT and very ordinary when given a poor HT.

I reiterate: unless you specifically want a stainess or a not stainless knife, then buy a maker (or grind or profile) that you like. The choice between 2 good steels is secondary.

Edit: FWIW, although I've never used it, Ginsanko is also considered to be a very good stainless when given a good HT (e.g.: Tanaka) and it is reputedly quite easy to sharpen. It's also usually clad in soft stainless. Lots of good choices.
 
That's great Nemo very helpful. Sounds like either is good and keep to a good HT. Cheers for that.
 
Can you describe the Tanaka ginsan profile for me? I owned the Tanaka KU blue gyuto and felt it had too much curvature, I'm wondering if the ginsan Tanaka is the same or flatter.

JaVa said:
Nice suggestions! :doublethumbsup:

I have most of the recommended knives and use them daily. The one I don't have the Tanaka B2 SS I badly want to ad to my crew. Though no one knows when they'll be available again. I have the Tanaka ginsan, but it's the migaki version not the nashiji. They have the same profile (with the new grind nashiji), but grind and weight is different.

This is how I see them:

Profile:
1. Itinomonn
2. Tanaka Ginsan
3. Takamura R2
4. Syousin Suminigashi

Edge retention
1. Takamura and Syousin Suminigashi
2. Tanaka Ginsan and Itinomonn

Geometry
1. Itinomonn
2. Syousin Suminigashi
3. Tanaka ginsan migaki (can't comment on the nashiji version)
4. Takamura

Ease of sharpening
1. Itinomonn
2. Tanaka
3. Syousin Suminigashi and Takamura

Weight
165g Itinomonn
198g Tanaka ginsan nashiji (from someone who owns one of the new grind version)
200g Syousin Suminigashi
(147g Takamura, but it's the only 210 so can't really compare.)

I have the Tanaka nakiri B2 and it is a dream to sharpen. Easiest of the bunch. All you have to do is look at the stones and it just seems to get sharp, But the edge retention isn't as good as the others here.

They are very different type of knives, but all are very thin behind the edge and cut great. IMO the Itinomonn Stain-Less is the best allrounder with the Tanaka ginsan trailing very close behind and the Tanaka has the nicest handle. The Syousin Suminigashi is the least nimble, but also the most powerful cutter of the group. With the Itinomonn you get the best of both worlds. It sharpens almost like a carbon and the core steel slowly develops a carbon like patina.

You really can't go wrong with any of them.
Click to expand...
 
richard said:
Tanaka ginsanko was replaced with VG10 no?
Click to expand...

Yes and no. It was for a while. Tanaka had trouble sourcing ginsanko steel and replaced it with VG10. According to James, Tanaka secured some ginsanko in limited quantity and K&S gets the whole lot exclusively. James has some Ginsan nashijis in stock right now.
 
My tanaka ginsanko nashiji 240 is pretty curvy
 
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