Do I need natural stones

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liren1

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Hi all
It's been a while since I posted here, for all sorts of reasons I cooked less and sharpened less.
I started free hand sharpening a couple of years ago, I'm still mediocre at best, but I'm getting reasonable results.

What I want to ask is, do I 'need' a natural stone ? I was thinking about getting one to try it out, but I'm not sure I can justify it. My current stones are JNS 320, Chosera 1000, Chosera 3000 and Naniwa Juunpaku - a.k.a Snow White which I don't always use actually.

Will a natural stone give me a better edge, or do I need to get to a better level before I can get a better edge. Do people here see noticeable improvements compared to synthetics or are they used more for aesthetic reasons.

Thanks
 
"Need" is a loaded word. I sure do enjoy my natural stones and like using them probably more than the knives themselves. You can achieve "different " edges as compared to synthetics, but "better" is subjective.
 
I agree. You don't need and you won't necessarily get better edges. I enjoy jnats more so I'm very familiar with mine and take more care during sharpening. These things probably lead me to produce better edges more so than the stones themselves.
 
Nevermind my earlier post. I've given it some thought and you, and I, and everyone else "needs" at least one natural stone.
 
NO, Wait.. nobody should own them........leaves more for me:D
 
As they tend to be more idiosyncratic than synthetic stones, I'd suggest to keep working with your synths. If your self description of sharpening skill is 'mediocre at best', that's not something that natural stones are really going to address
 
Everybody needs natural stones. :D That said, I agree with foody. Ability aside, naturals will test your patience. I find that with synthetic stones I can get by fine even if I hate the stone but with naturals it is more of a challenge to learn the stone and what it is useful for. I am still a fledgling so take my advice with a grain of salt.
 
i find the edge from natural holds up better and much easier to deburr. Having said that, if you cant afford a decent full size jnat then one should make sure they can sharpen with consistency using more limited stone surface else one might get better results with larger synth stones.
 
I've found myself using synthetics most of the time to sharpen knives now. I gave up most of my soakers because I wasn't using them and rely on S&G, some from JNS, some from JKI and JKI's diamond plates. It does not make for relaxing navel gazing but it gets it done.

I did not part with my naturals because I enjoy using them when I can and always with the single bevels. I don't know that they or I do a better job as a result but I like to think its better. Suggest you start with a finisher - I think most everybody does - and see how you like it. And then you'll need another.....
 
I suspect if I didn't polish tall bevels and only wanted good edge makers, I would have not bothered much with naturals. Now that I have some, I'm inclined to use them to justify owning them.
 
Thanks for all replies. By 'need' I meant - will it give me an edge that is better - and better means cuts better , holds better, or easier to deburr, not looks better. It's not a question of whether or not I can afford one stone (I can, though not $2000 for one stone.), but whether I will get something out of it now, and by the sound of it, given my less than expert skill, maybe not. But I'm so tempted...
 
dwalker said:
Nevermind my earlier post. I've given it some thought and you, and I, and everyone else "needs" at least one natural stone.
Click to expand...

In that case, which one ?... If I were to select one stone for my first step in this world.
 
i think for most of us with naturals.. need - no, you can get a knife very sharp with synthetics and some synthetics can give kasumi finishes. it's only if you want that extra 5-10% that you pay the extra for a natural
 
Been meaning to ask that too ... so is there any degree of sharpness or cutting feel available from expensive JNATs at all that is unreachable with synths, semi-synths (Kitayama) and/or non-expensive-or-jnat-naturals (belgian, welsh, whatever...), and stropping compounds, on any commonly found steel?
 
As I have said before, I find threads like these interesting and it would seem everyone has their own reasons for liking natural stones or not. Unlike most I sharpen mostly narrow double bevel knives yet would not be without them. I also much prefer my mid grit stones as they leave the most practical edge for me. However, I can go to a higher level of polish with natural stones without losing so much bite and I do not find that true with synthetics. I wouldn't describe the edge I get from naturals as better, rather the edge is different and that just happens to be what I want from a stone. Having said that, I am just beginning my journey with natural stones and still have a lot to learn.
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
Been meaning to ask that too ... so is there any degree of sharpness or cutting feel available from expensive JNATs at all that is unreachable with synths, semi-synths (Kitayama) and/or non-expensive-or-jnat-naturals (belgian, welsh, whatever...), and stropping compounds, on any commonly found steel?
Click to expand...

Most of the price of a jnat has to do with availability, size, uniformity in size (perfect brick shape), color, and appearance. Just because one is more expensive than the next says almost nothing about performance.
 
Short answer is yes. As others mentioned a nice finisher. Ask for a beginners stone. Something around $350 will get you a decent rock and nagura. Then STOP and learn how that stone and nagura work with the steels you have. Aframes, JNS, Wantanabe will do you right.
 
Mucho Bocho said:
Short answer is yes. As others mentioned a nice finisher. Ask for a beginners stone. Something around $350 will get you a decent rock and nagura. Then STOP and learn how that stone and nagura work with the steels you have. Aframes, JNS, Wantanabe will do you right.
Click to expand...

Using work time to here, much more fun...
It seems you are very close with regards to prices. As a gift to self I contacted Watanabe yesterday about a Nikiri, and also asked about a 'reasonably priced' natural stone for a first time user. He recommended the Uchigumori stone which is splash and go, with good 'shaping power' to be used after my Naniwa snow white , and can be used on all types of steel, including stainless, and doesn't need Nagura stone.
Usually I understand for kitchen knives there is not much point in going beyond 8000, so what can I expect using this stone ?
 
And also, would it do anything beyond what using arbitrarily finer synthetic abrasives (on a sufficiently fine grained steel) could achieve?
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
And also, would it do anything beyond what using arbitrarily finer synthetic abrasives (on a sufficiently fine grained steel) could achieve?
Click to expand...

A jnats biggest attribute to me is their versitilty. You could have a stone that gives you a 3-4k edge. Work it a little bit more and you could have a 5-6k edge. Add some different Nagura and you can expand a single stone's ability even more.

My earlier post about cost was meant to say you don't have to spend a ton of money to get a great stone. Really good medium grit finishers can be had for under $150. My favorite finisher for a couple of my knives is a Shobu Tomae I picked up for $100 IIRC. I have spent as little as $35 for a natural and as much as $650. I use them all and can't say one is better than the next as they all do something different.
 
I'm a little confused by natural stones saying 1000-3000 for one stone. Is it that because they are natural, there is not
A specific grit?
 
ABranson said:
I'm a little confused by natural stones saying 1000-3000 for one stone. Is it that because they are natural, there is not
A specific grit?
Click to expand...

Once you work up a slurry, the more you work with it, the more it breaks down giving a more refined edge. There is no specific grit for a natural stone. Most descriptions you see giving a range of grit are either the estimated grit range for a particular stone from x mine and y strata, or what the seller estimated it's range after using it. Many reputable sellers use the stone before selling so they can accurately describe it.
 
ABranson said:
I'm a little confused by natural stones saying 1000-3000 for one stone. Is it that because they are natural, there is not
A specific grit?
Click to expand...

To think of it another way, look at it a bit like sandpaper. A piece of sandpaper may start at at 600 grit, but the more you use it, the more the grit particles in the sandpaper wear down and break apart until you're left with a piece of sandpaper that still abrades material, but much less so because you've worn down the abrasive grit and made it finer. This is essentially what happens in a natural stone's slurry.
 
Any opinions on Uchigumori stones ? What kind of knives would they suit the most ? Trying to make up my mind ..
 
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