2018 Takedas

Okay so Takedas are something that have been discussed to death here. To say that they're polarizing is an understatement. But the disparity in opinions over why they turned bad and whether they still are is annoying for someone thinking about buying one. (I love the profile and size and really wanna try one) so consider these questions to put the whole thing to rest
1) what exactly went wrong? Was the problem the way the knives were ground or was the bevel grinding done half assed and left thick shoulders? The former seems a lot more serious, and reading different posts gave different causes. Some even saying the heat treat changed.
2) is it still an issue? People compare new vs old Takeda but "new" is from 2012-2015 mostly. I don't hear about that as much. I've heard members complain about them more recently but a huge chunk of those were just repeating what was said over the last few years without having ever touched one. I've heard from members (couldn't find the post) that the problem is in the past and things got fixed, and I heard the same from vendors saying that he was using young inexperienced guys to grind the knives but that that's not an issue anymore.
So please can someone shed light on the whole issue?

I have a 2017 Takeda Nakiri. I have no complaints about the heat treat and the grind works well for things like onions/chillies/celery even carrots. It's a really enjoyable knife to use and the food release is perfect.

Doesn't work great for other large harder vegetables, you'll get some wedging. The grind for the nakiri is pretty similar to the gyuto so it might have the same issues.

I also owned a nakiri NAS large. It was fantastic! Blazed through products like onions. Super thin, high performance that had at times magical food release, especially for how thin it was. I sold it, no fault of the knife, just needed cash. But I definitely may back track and get another. It seems the NAS is stiffer than the classic. I haven't used a classic, so can't say for sure. But the NAS nakiri was really stiff for as thin as it was. Impressive knife imo all around. And it was an absolute pleasurable breeze to sharpen!

Stainless clad line is definitely stiffer feeling.

I'll add mine was great through the small amount of sweet potatoes I put it through and carrots. Basically, everything I remember putting it to, it performed very well

I couldn't find the post were someone said it is in the past but it's good to hear. I can always ask for pics of the one I'm to buy to double check, it won't tell me much but it's better than nothing

Also I went from 8 inch German to 240 mm stainless uraku and masahiro VC
I thought it would take time to get used to the extra size but they feel exactly like the 8 inch one length wise. I never felt it lacking but I'm curious about more. Which is why I'm thinking of getting a 270mm Takeda, but I'm not sure i should since it's so much bigger than any other 240 if that's really necessary.

I mostly cam across poorly made smaller knives from them in the 2012-2015 era. bunkas seemed to be popular among people I know and they looked like knives that were made from large knife failures. They would bend and hold that bend on the spine in just one weird place like a part of the spine was not heat treated at all, but I dont really know what caused it. Knives got sharp but the grind was bad because they were never straight. I have seen some of the newer gyutos and they are supper lazer like with just a little too much shoulder but thats easily fixed.

minibatataman said:

Also I went from 8 inch German to 240 mm stainless uraku and masahiro VC
I thought it would take time to get used to the extra size but they feel exactly like the 8 inch one length wise. I never felt it lacking but I'm curious about more. Which is why I'm thinking of getting a 270mm Takeda, but I'm not sure i should since it's so much bigger than any other 240 if that's really necessary.

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I recently got a 240 AS Gyuto. It seems fine to me if not super sharp out of the box. It is, however, gigantic. It’s about 260 mm on the edge, which is about the same as many 270s from other smiths. I can only imagine how big the 270 is.

I think my 240 is about 255. Height 64. Light though. It’s a classic from 2013. Straight with a zero grind. I like prepping with that knife.

cheflivengood said:

I mostly cam across poorly made smaller knives from them in the 2012-2015 era. bunkas seemed to be popular among people I know and they looked like knives that were made from large knife failures. They would bend and hold that bend on the spine in just one weird place like a part of the spine was not heat treated at all, but I dont really know what caused it. Knives got sharp but the grind was bad because they were never straight. I have seen some of the newer gyutos and they are supper lazer like with just a little too much shoulder but thats easily fixed.

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Good to know. That's exactly what I was looking for tbh. Most people say the same. The heat treat and most of the knife work don't seem to have suffered at all. It was just poor finishing

Yea I guess I'll just look for the biggest 240 I can find lol. That way I don't go overboard and at the same time I can save a few bucks

I have a NAS 210mm and its pretty stiff. Definitely flies through softer product, not the greatest on larger/harder stuff. Food release is excellent! Overall pretty impressed!

minibatataman said:

Yea I guess I'll just look for the biggest 240 I can find lol. That way I don't go overboard and at the same time I can save a few bucks

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If you find that you need to reduce the shoulders of the edge, tape the spine and use it as a guide like the straight razor guys do. I found that four layers of electrical tape did the trick for my 210 NAS. YMMV.

Dave's comments are really discouraging me, though. So I'm not so sure anymore. I'll just look up the vendors on my side of the planet and ask for the thinnest gring and largets bevel, instead of the thick grind and tiny useless bevels I keep hearing people hate on

minibatataman said:

Dave's comments are really discouraging me, though. So I'm not so sure anymore. I'll just look up the vendors on my side of the planet and ask for the thinnest gring and largets bevel, instead of the thick grind and tiny useless bevels I keep hearing people hate on

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It's not the size of the bevel (my knife had a 5mm wide bevel), but the shoulder that is the issue.

Pensacola Tiger said:

It's not the size of the bevel (my knife had a 5mm wide bevel), but the shoulder that is the issue.

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Would you think it's a knife still worth going for?

minibatataman said:

Would you think it's a knife still worth going for?

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Takeda's knives, especially the gyutos, are unique blades. They are thin, yet the forging process creates a concave cross-section that gives them excellent release. They are tall, almost crossing into cleaver territory, yet they are very nimble for their size. The finish is utilitarian, the handles well-made if somewhat spartan. If these are qualities that you are looking for, and you are willing to spend a little time and effort if you have to correct the minor issue that keeps it from cutting like a laser, then it is worth going for. Otherwise, there are a lot of other knives for the money that may better meet your needs.

takedas are not newbie friendly yet noobs fall in love with the way they look.

panda said:

takedas are not newbie friendly yet noobs fall in love with the way they look.

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I've used an uraku and a masahiro for a while now. Had years of using french carbon knives before that. I can sharpen well enough to shave with my blades, and I know how to thin if I need to.
But that knife costs more than both my knives and my sharpening set cost all together. So as a student spending this much on a knife isn't something small, so I'm just double checking.

Pensacola Tiger said:

Takeda's knives, especially the gyutos, are unique blades. They are thin, yet the forging process creates a concave cross-section that gives them excellent release. They are tall, almost crossing into cleaver territory, yet they are very nimble for their size. The finish is utilitarian, the handles well-made if somewhat spartan. If these are qualities that you are looking for, and you are willing to spend a little time and effort if you have to correct the minor issue that keeps it from cutting like a laser, then it is worth going for. Otherwise, there are a lot of other knives for the money that may better meet your needs.

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No I know, that's why I want one. I was looking for something extra tall and extra thin, and I love the profile on that thing, that's why I want one. I don't mind a bit of work to get it to where I want it, but there's a difference between a thick bevel and a terrible grind and bad heat treatment, that's why I wanted to know if it's still worth it

It heat treatment seemed wonderful!! And I've heard many, many people gush about his steel. Mine was performing very laserish.

I have a 2017 NAS 170mm bunka. It get's crazy sharp, is extremely thin and is very easy to sharpen. See choil shot below. It handles soft products great and the food release is the best I've ever seen. However, the pronounced shoulders would sometimes cause some (minor) wedging in harder onions and garlics near the root. I took it to one of the best sharpeners in Sweden, who declined to take down the shoulders as it was already so thin that he thought he might scratch the blade up. He is japanese and have been in the industry all his life, and he said it was the thinnest knife he had ever seen. The picture gets so big on screen so it might be hard to tell from the the picture below.



I would recommend getting a somewhat thicker specimen, and then take down the shoulders/raise the shinogi. That would give you a knife that is still very thin, is very tall and will not wedge in harder produce. It really is a great knife.

The shoulders help create the food release. Mine performed teally well even through things like carrots and onions. If it's not as laserish as the most extreme lasers the trade off for food release that rivals and even beats many thicker workhorses may still be worth it imo.

Viggetorr said:

I have a 2017 NAS 170mm bunka. It get's crazy sharp, is extremely thin and is very easy to sharpen. See choil shot below. It handles soft products great and the food release is the best I've ever seen. However, the pronounced shoulders would sometimes cause some (minor) wedging in harder onions and garlics near the root. I took it to one of the best sharpeners in Sweden, who declined to take down the shoulders as it was already so thin that he thought he might scratch the blade up. He is japanese and have been in the industry all his life, and he said it was the thinnest knife he had ever seen. The picture gets so big on screen so it might be hard to tell from the the picture below.

I would recommend getting a somewhat thicker specimen, and then take down the shoulders/raise the shinogi. That would give you a knife that is still very thin, is very tall and will not wedge in harder produce. It really is a great knife.

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Damn that looks crazy thin! I'll probably go with something a bit thicker like you said.
Also I'm trying to send you a message, so please clear your inbox

Jville said:

The shoulders help create the food release. Mine performed teally well even through things like carrots and onions. If it's not as laserish as the most extreme lasers the trade off for food release that rivals and even beats many thicker workhorses may still be worth it imo.

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Yea I'd imagine you do need the knife to get a bit thicker, or else it won't be concave anymore. My main point of the whole post was to ask if the knives are still the same in that sense but the shoulders are being left too thick, or is the issue bigger than that

minibatataman said:

Damn that looks crazy thin! I'll probably go with something a bit thicker like you said.
Also I'm trying to send you a message, so please clear your inbox

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Inbox cleared.

panda said:

takedas are not newbie friendly yet noobs fall in love with the way they look.

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True statement right here. I am one of them. I fell in love with the look and profile, but learned quickly that it takes time to get used to. The extra height is difficult to manage at first

I recently bought a 240 (~257mm) NAS used, so I don’t know when it was made. It had the “new” wedgey grind and I thinned it on stones. Probably took about the 6 hours that Dave M mentioned in a thread somewhere but now it’s great - worth it. Definitely a job for a belt grinder though.

GorillaGrunt said:

I recently bought a 240 (~257mm) NAS used, so I don’t know when it was made. It had the “new” wedgey grind and I thinned it on stones. Probably took about the 6 hours that Dave M mentioned in a thread somewhere but now it’s great - worth it. Definitely a job for a belt grinder though.

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Pics would be very very appreciated!