16 pound pork shoulder

[Dieter01]

Wow those look great! Couldn't help myself after seeing this thread so bought myself a 9lb pork neck today (with bones). I've always liked this piece of meat but I've never put it in brine before, I would like to try that. How long should I let a piece like this sit in the brine solution you think? Is 4 days too much?

 

[Jim]

I find if you brine pork to long it can get "Hammy", (hard to describe), I prefer to rub my butts with my mix and let it sit for a couple days before going in the BBQ.

 

[mhlee]

I find if you brine pork to long it can get "Hammy", (hard to describe), I prefer to rub my butts with my mix and let it sit for a couple days before going in the BBQ.

+1

If you are going to brine it, I've found that the appropriate length of time is dependent on the diameter of the product, i.e. the thicker it is, the longer it takes. Although I don't brine many things, I have brined a whole pork loin using Nancy Oakes' vanilla brine for, IIRC, 3 days. It came out very nice. The loin was approximately 4 inches in diameter. (I've also brined chicken and turkey, but now prefer the dry brining method.)

 

[Mucho Bocho]

I never used to be into pumping but thats what needs to happen if you want to get the brine deep into the meat. I usually pump the butts with a mix of PORK FAB, Apple cider and cider vinegar. then vacuum tumble the butt for an hour or so with a similar brine. then rest the butt in the refrigerator open to dry for a day. Then rub a little yellow mustard salt pepper no dry rub. NOW I"M GOING TO HEAR TRADITIONALIST *****

Sous Vide at 147 for 48 hours or so. Completely chill. Remove from bag, pat dry, add dry rub, smoke until a temp of 140, foil until 195 temp reached. Rest in a cooler for a few hours until temp comes down to 160. Pull, no chopping please.

It only took four hours to go from 42 to 195 degrees.

About FAB

http://www.theingredientstore.com/fab/FAB-cookbook.pdf

 

[Jim]

I never used to be into pumping but thats what needs to happen if you want to get the brine deep into the meat. I usually pump the butts with a mix of PORK FAB, Apple cider and cider vinegar. then vacuum tumble the butt for an hour or so with a similar brine. then rest the butt in the refrigerator open to dry for a day. Then rub a little yellow mustard salt pepper no dry rub. NOW I"M GOING TO HEAR TRADITIONALIST *****

Sous Vide at 147 for 48 hours or so. Completely chill. Remove from bag, pat dry, add dry rub, smoke until a temp of 140, foil until 195 temp reached. Rest in a cooler for a few hours until temp comes down to 160. Pull, no chopping please.

It only took four hours to go from 42 to 195 degrees.

About FAB

http://www.theingredientstore.com/fab/FAB-cookbook.pdf

Interesting- I planed on smoking the butt for a couple of hours then slipping it into the Sous Vide (when I finish getting it built).

 

[Mucho Bocho]

Jim, I've done with both ways but I think its easier and cleaner to sous vide then smoke. Plus (and this is the best thing about sous vide), you can break up the cooking time. Plus, if you smoke it and sous vide after, your going to have to cool the meat to 40, then bag, then sous vide, then smoke again to get he crust. asking for problems if you ask me? But you that already.

 

[Jim]

Cool... thanks for the feedback on that- experience matters!

 

[hax9215]

BEHOLD, THE TRADITIONALISTS *****!! :beatinghead::censored::doublebanghead::crying::angryexplode:ullhair::shocked::crytissue::soapbox:

Where to begin?

I have kept my mouth shut up until now, but can do so no longer! First of all, in 30 years of smoking pork butts I have never brined one. Brining is something I have saved for chicken and briskets. In order to maintain or even improve juiciness of smoked meat I have always placed a metal half-pan with water inside the smoker making sure it is in line with the heat from the firebox, refilling with water as the liquid burns off. When using a cut like a bone-in neck a slow, gentle smoke at a lower heat is appropriate; say about 200°-210°. Figure about one hour per pound of meat and be patient, even with a bone-in cut like you describe you will get the stall.

And another thing! Give the meat a good rubdown on all sides the day before, let it set overnight, and smoke!

And about this sous-vide nonsense; on smoked meat??? First of all, and I don't think the piece of meat would be small enough to fit in any that I have seen, and speeding up smoking DEFEATS THE PURPOSE! LOW AND SLOW, YOU HEATHENS!!!

Btw, no offense meant to all of you seaweed-infused bento box smear 1 ounce of sauce across the plate 50 g of protein for an entrée serving trying to learn how to barbecue (much loved to the our California brethren!) Chefs out there.

Hax the Cook CLEAVERS RULE!!!

 

[Mucho Bocho]

Hax, I've cooked my share of butts too. I don't like to smoke my foods the entire time. Even if using fruit woods, it can be overpowering. I'm not saying that Sous Vide is the BEST way to do it. I like it for three reasons:

1.) Breaks up the cooking time. Drops the final cooking to to 4hrs.
2.) because the meat is cooked at a lower temperature (147), less denatured proteins, less juice loss, more enzymatic tenderization too
3.) because i can.

About brining, pumping or tumbling: Again, not necessary but once you taste meat that has gone through these interventions. its hard to go back. BTW, I've learned this through experimentation, learning from Pit Masters and keeping an open mind.

Hac, you must be very fond of Steven Reichland. He's more of a traditionalist. These days i'm more into pushing the limits of what is possible. Both have their place. I'm sure your pork is fine, but remember its hard to knock something before trying it.

One thing to note is that pork will taste difference thought the year. Pork is best in cooler weather usually in fall or winter. I'm pretty lucky down here in kaklaki, I actually get to pick out the live hogs I want parts from. All pastured raised and loved until humanly slaughtered.

 

[mhlee]

I can get pasture raised pork . . . if I sold my car and used the proceeds to buy it. :curse:

It's so frickin' expensive here in Cali. It's cheaper for me to get Kurobuta from Snake River Farms which is still quite pricey.

FYI - Sous Vide is not allowed under KCBS rules if any readers are considering using the technique in a competition.

 

[add]

Glad this turned out well for you Obtuse.

Gonna have to try your spice rub.

 

[Mucho Bocho]

Mklee, Indeed but I don't do competition BBQ. I believe they also outlaw flavor enhancers like FAB but people use it all the time.

 

[Duckfat]

it's 3:39pm a little after 14 hours since I've began. The pork is no where near done, the thickest park of one of the shoulders still reads 150, the other hovering around the low 160s. I've lowered the drip pan to increase airflow and turned them 180 degrees. I'm tempted to increase the temperature to 250. the outside is looking nice and crusty

There's no problem bumping up to 250 after you've been on that long of a hold cycle. I shoot for a steady 225 on a Large BGE. The thing about the Costco butts being boneless is that they are butterflied. How you roll or tie them can dramatically change the cook time. Lately with the Costco butts I've been hitting right around the 14 hour mark and I pull at 185. I season at least a full day ahead. No need for brining etc. Glad they turned out and the BGE is working for you. Always nice to see a fellow Egghead!

Dave

 

[mhlee]

Mklee, Indeed but I don't do competition BBQ. I believe they also outlaw flavor enhancers like FAB but people use it all the time.

Flavor enhancers are allowed to the best of my knowledge. The 2012 rules also don't exclude the use of flavor enhancers or even other products like Tender Quick. From my reading of the 2012 rules, as far as seasoning goes, only pre-seasoned meats are not allowed.

Also, if you sous vide a product before smoking to the temp you identified, you'll likely end up with no smoke ring. I know it's mostly a cosmetic thing, but to some people it's important.

I was also thinking back to some of my cooks where I've cooked something initially and then smoked it. I do recall that I had one prime rib that turned out particularly well where I cooked the entire prime rib to rare in the oven, then refrigerated it and then smoked it until I brought it back to temp. (This was also using fruit woods that I now generally shy away from when cooking beef.) It was one of the best prime ribs I probably have ever made (also taking into consideration that it was a from a whole bone in prime rib and USDA Prime). We even had it with a 2000 Pichon Baron. I was surprised that even though I had smoked it with a somewhat strong amount of smoke, it did not have as strong as a smoked flavor as I had expected. If it were more smokey, I would not have enjoyed it as much.

This got me thinking and leads me to this question. For all of you barbecuers out there, have you noticed that if you cook a piece of meat first in a non-smoking manner, and then cook that same meat in a smoker, that it has less smoke flavor than a piece of meat that you've cooked the entire time in a smoker or smoked first, and then finished in an oven (or other non-smoker cooker)?

 

[Jim]

There is an often quoted 165 degrees of surface temperature that creates a "barrier" to smoke being absorbed into the meat. Of course if you have a smokey, sooty fire it will deposit on the meat continuously, the science is nitrate uptake or something. So yep, cold meat in a low temp BBQ will absorb more smokiness all things being equal.
I like oak or oak& cherry for beef BTW.