1st Nakiri Choices

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No the right thing to do is buy a relatively inexpensive nakiri 75 bucks or less), spend 30 bucks on a King 1000 sharpening stone and be happy. If you're not happy, you can get back 75% of your money in the BST forum..... Or you can throw up your hands and say screw it. If I can't sharpen my knife in 30 seconds with a machine that should have an electric can opener attached....with Zero effort on my part....I ain't gonna spend any time at all doing it right. Have fun. ;-)
 
wjd1 said:
Well.....I guess I won't buy a nakiri or a Chef's Choice......save about $275....and plan on taking my other 2 knives somewhere local for sharpening......that way they won't be ruined.......or when they get too dull....I could just buy new ones......that sounds like the "right thing to do''.....
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well I guess you will not experience what has been said. The disappointment of when your knife won't cut past a 1/4 inch down. Even after another couple passes on the machine. I think you are saving more than the 275.
 
^^^It is funny though...I wonder why some people bother asking when they seem to know the answer...4 pages wasted...:(
 
Pull through devices are as common as fleas.I'd never put a J-Blade on one of those things.If you want a good knife a little freehand skill goes a long way.It is not that hard to learn-- some motor skills & hand eye cordination.Carter says it best,by using devices you are putting the respondsibiliy for your edge on the device instead of your own skills.

Actually if you take the time to learn a little skill you save money from wasting it on crap that does not work that well or depending on someone else to sharpen your knives.

Plus there is satisfaction gained from mastering things.It is Human nature,well some Humans anyway.:bliss:
 
bikehunter said:
I find that I can never open these attachments. ???
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the attachments that uploaded from computer are the ones that always seem to fail.
Linked from the web with not local copy seems to work best.

The thread is pretty much dead now as it became clear that the OP didn't really want any advice that wasn't in accordance of his assumptions / what he wanted to hear, but here's a little preview of the next thread that we'll likely see after he spends some quality time with the new nakiri and cc:
why%2520no.jpg


and the profile looks something like this:
61LNwlUszVL._SL1500_.jpg
 
Huh....I haven't seen a good pic of the Shun Ice Cream Sandwich knife before. Thx.
 
But just how many years will it take to reach stage four? I have a Dexter 12-inch steaking knife I run through a ChefChoice every fall before butchering my deer. In a really good season I may butcher 4 or 5, an average year a couple. Once the edge is touched up on the ChefsChoice, it is steeled on a EZE-LAP diamond rod as I work. The knife has been in use for maybe 25-30 years now and it might have as much wear as stage 2 on your drawing. Of course, the drawing is a complete exaggeration the wear pattern. from the machine.
 
Noodle Soup said:
But just how many years will it take to reach stage four? I have a Dexter 12-inch steaking knife I run through a ChefChoice every fall before butchering my deer. In a really good season I may butcher 4 or 5, an average year a couple. Once the edge is touched up on the ChefsChoice, it is steeled on a EZE-LAP diamond rod as I work. The knife has been in use for maybe 25-30 years now and it might have as much wear as stage 2 on your drawing. Of course, the drawing is a complete exaggeration the wear pattern. from the machine.
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Noodle it would be worse wear with a nikiri, because of more chipping, harder steel, ect..
 
Noodle Soup said:
But just how many years will it take to reach stage four? I have a Dexter 12-inch steaking knife I run through a ChefChoice every fall before butchering my deer. In a really good season I may butcher 4 or 5, an average year a couple. Once the edge is touched up on the ChefsChoice, it is steeled on a EZE-LAP diamond rod as I work. The knife has been in use for maybe 25-30 years now and it might have as much wear as stage 2 on your drawing. Of course, the drawing is a complete exaggeration the wear pattern. from the machine.
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A soft butcher knife is much more appropriate for the CC. I've notices that a thicker blade / thicker bte works pretty well for raw meat. It seems like the thicker geometry the would wedge in hard veg helps separate the flesh and actually reduces drag. A nakiri is also far more dependent on even board contact than a butcher knife.

The degradation in performance would become noticeable (to anyone that isn't oblivious) pretty quickly. It all depends on the geometry of the that particular blade, but I've noticed a degradation in cutting feel in less than a half dozen hand sharpenings without thinning.
Given a good hand edge will last longer than a cc edge and that the cc removes more metal, I'd say one could easily see a very noticeable drop in performance within the first few months of buying a shiney new nakiri.

The drawing is obviously an exaggeration, but that's because fractions of a mm make a huge difference in reality.
 
I guess I shouldn't get into an argument about using a ChefsChoice on a nakiri because I would never do that anyway. That said, I still think this "removes too much metal" thing is way over exaggerated assuming you stay off the first and second stages as much as possible. If you think you need to go through all three stages every time, then you many have problems but ChefsChoice will tell you that upfront. The third stage on most models (and like I said, I've used every model they have made) removes no more metal than a stone would. My real point is still that it is a good machine for the average person that has no desire to spend the time,or in the case of waterstones, money learning to hand sharpen. Maybe not ideal for hard Japanese blades but their Asian model will give them the proper angle.
 
Noodle Soup said:
I guess I shouldn't get into an argument about using a ChefsChoice on a nakiri because I would never do that anyway. That said, I still think this "removes too much metal" thing is way over exaggerated assuming you stay off the first and second stages as much as possible. If you think you need to go through all three stages every time, then you many have problems but ChefsChoice will tell you that upfront. The third stage on most models (and like I said, I've used every model they have made) removes no more metal than a stone would. My real point is still that it is a good machine for the average person that has no desire to spend the time,or in the case of waterstones, money learning to hand sharpen. Maybe not ideal for hard Japanese blades but their Asian model will give them the proper angle.
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I won't argue that a CC is "better than nothing" for crappy knives. When I saw a 3-stage model on super-close-out sale I actually picked one up for my mom in hopes that she would use it on her soft german-steeled knives in between times when I visit and give them all a propper sharpening.
Another scenario might be that the industrial models (that wont over heat and shut off like the home versions) are perhaps viable if you had a whole pro kitchen or butcher shop full of crappy knives that needed sharpened every day / multiple times a day.
However, I don't think that either scenario would apply to 99% of the folks on here.

However, the argument that anything other than the non-cutting "buffing" stage doesn't take more metal off than a hand stone is so wrong it's silly. Maybe early on in hand-sharpening one might tend to remove a little extra steel as it takes some time to get a feel for holding an angle and developing a consistent bur, but very quickly it get's pretty easy to feel the exact instant when you've reached that primary edge and it's time to switch sides. The manual process allows for a level of control and a conservation of edge steel that I just inherently impossible with something like a cc. I understand that you're happy with the money that you put into yours, but stop trying to argue the point that it's something that it isn't.
 
Justin, I started to write a long reply to that last post but decided against it. You have found your true religion and I'm just a poor, unenlightened heathen. :surrendar: LOL
 
Noodle Soup said:
Justin, I started to write a long reply to that last post but decided against it. You have found your true religion and I'm just a poor, unenlightened heathen. :surrendar: LOL
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Quite the opposite. Religion is a matter of faith and seeking explanation / meaning for things which we cannot know or fully understand.

Knives and sharpening is very much a topic which is observable and understandable to those who care to observe with their senses and think with their brains.

If you had a well constructed argument as to why someone on this forum should go spend between $100 - $600 on CC or similar machine, I'd be genuinely interested in reading it.
 
Noodle Soup said:
What ever Justin. I bow to your superior knowledge of everything sharp.
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I guess that means "no I don't have anything intelligent to say, so I'll say something sarcastic and defensive instead."
 
Maybe we should call a ceasefire. This isn't really getting anything accomplished.
 
Justin0505 said:
If you had a well constructed argument as to why someone on this forum should go spend between $100 - $600 on CC or similar machine, I'd be genuinely interested in reading it.
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I'd venture around 80% of the population who own knives either do not sharpen them ever, use a hand held pull thru device, or use the steel as if they are fencing to "sharpen" there knives.I also speculate fewer than 5% fall into the knife aficionado category like yourself and many "on this forum". The other 15% or so fall somewhere in the middle....like your Mom....and me ...and many others.....some want and enjoy sharpening by hand...others dont....but want to do more than the first category...It does not make a CC wrong.....is it as good as stones...HECK NO.....never said that....never would. But for some it may be the "best" they are willing to do.....and Edgecraft seems like a pretty successful company. And I see many professional sharpeners listed here on the forum...many well respected and successful.....so I wonder why if "everyone" should do it themselves, are they still in business...I think because alot of people dont care to do it themselves....My point is...everyone is different and has different motivations.....I concede you are MORE right....but that does not make someone else of a different opinion wrong.

I came to ask a Kitchen Knife question on THE KITCHEN KNIFE FORUM.....I was trying to get opinions/education based on MY criteria......what I ( and we) got from several....not all...... was a sophomoric, condescending, elitist, and intolerant one-sided discussion.
 
This reminds me of the guy at work and his stance on how the dinosaurs were never real, and people put the bones in the ground. After a while you let him go thinking he has a point.
 
The pull-through water-wheel thingie from Global works too if you are prepared to accept a lower standard.
 
probably less than 1% population use proper J. nakiri though.
 
Crothcipt said:
This reminds me of the guy at work and his stance on how the dinosaurs were never real, and people put the bones in the ground. After a while you let him go thinking he has a point.
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lol, related to this guy perhaps?
[video=youtube;v7XXVLKWd3Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7XXVLKWd3Q[/video]

I guess if that general can get his head around being asked those questions from a sitting US senator, then it shouldn't blow my mind so much that this is even a discussion on KKF.
 
Well there is that museum in Kentucky that proves his point.
 
Dinosaurs are not here because they were to big to fit on the Boat two by two:spin chair:
 
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