ACRE Forge PKL Knife Pass around

[Mikeadunne]

Is this a stiction issue or an effort to push through to food issue?

I guess my answer would be a little bit of both. Stiction is less bothersome to me than the effort to push through food. That becomes annoying/a little dangerous at times and also means I have to put more pressure on the thin spine hence the discomfort.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

Thanks to both of you for the feedback. Acre is local to me and I'm a fan of Jamison's work. So I expect to buy something from them. A couple of questions.


Is this a stiction issue or an effort to push through to food issue?


Interesting. So it seems to be too thin at the spine and also too thick behind the edge? I see another comment mentioned that it could be ready for thinning already. This seems unlikely to me. Unless people went crazy with sharpening, it's hard to imagine how it could have gotten significantly thicker behind the edge during the pass around. Maybe this is possible?

Good questions David. First I would highly recommend checking out the shop, they are happy to give tours and an awesome group to meet with. I am a huge fan of Jamison's work and have owned multiple of his knives. When we are talking about the PKL I think its worth mentioning that it is a "production" knife and not the same as their custom work. I think because they dont know where there production knives are going and who may be using them, they have to be left a little thicker behind the edge so they hold up to any kind of usage. My actual Jamison knives and even more so Alex are very thin behind the edge.

As far as stiction, it doesnt create extra effort for me as far as going through food. Food tends to hold onto the blade though but I think anytime you have thin stock and pretty much a flat grind this is going to happen. I did not have this issue with his forged knives.

These are made with thin stock so they are pretty thin at the spine. Many of us tend to gravitate to knives with a thick spine so this can impact comfort when holding the knife. Personally the thin spine on this one doesnt bother me, I dont use this for large prep though so I could see how it might bother me during a long session.
I posted in a response yesterday that my actual Jamison flexes on your fingernail all the way down where as the PKL doesnt. It is also a really light knife, with not much weight behind it the cutting action has to be done by you rather than the weight of the knife. I think these together can make it seem like it could use some thinning. I think if you were to buy a custom it would be thinner, if you want a PKL you could probably ask them to go slightly thinner as well. People I have let use it that dont own a bunch of knives have loved it, I think we are just used to such high performance we notice little things.

I am just north of you in the Vancouver area, if you ever want to see both a Jamison and the PKL let me know we could probably meet up somewhere. They also have a ton of knives at the shop you can look at .

 

[Delat]

Thanks to both of you for the feedback. Acre is local to me and I'm a fan of Jamison's work. So I expect to buy something from them. A couple of questions.


Is this a stiction issue or an effort to push through to food issue?


Interesting. So it seems to be too thin at the spine and also too thick behind the edge? I see another comment mentioned that it could be ready for thinning already. This seems unlikely to me. Unless people went crazy with sharpening, it's hard to imagine how it could have gotten significantly thicker behind the edge during the pass around. Maybe this is possible?

I think this photo tells the tale. On the left is my Myojin 180mm, PKL on the right. You can see they're very similar until the very last bit before the edge. It does look like a decision by the grinder/sharpener, unless the knife got shortened a ton during the pass around which seems unlikely.

It's subtle and probably only knife nerds like us would pick up on the difference in use, but it's definitely noticeable. In use it's difficult to isolate the additional force needed as being caused by stiction vs thickness - both are friction related and actually both certainly could be factors for why the PKL looks and feels like a laser but doesn't cut like one.

As I said earlier though, it should be relatively easy to address with thinning if someone were so inclined.

 

[David R]

When we are talking about the PKL I think its worth mentioning that it is a "production" knife and not the same as their custom work.

Thanks for the clarification. I was aware it's not a custom, but good to make that clear for others reading. Thanks for the great offer to check out some knives. When I get a chance I will take you on it and buy you coffee or other beverage. I work more than full time and am back in school. Until I get through this term in school fine any free time will be tough.

 

[Delat]

Knife is on its way to @timebard

Thanks again to @Matt Jacobs for the chance to try it out!

 

[timebard]

Knife arrived safely with me this week. Haven't had the chance to use it much but first impressions were better than expected given the last few reviews. The handle is quite nice although a bit heavy for the blade. Good FnF, especially the rivets and tang being very smoothly flush with the scales.

Performance I thought was basically what you'd expect for a thin stock laser. Not what I usually gravitate towards but perfectly usable. Cuts smoothly, some sticking but not particularly bad.

As an all-around profile for a normie kind of user goes, it feels like the heel is a bit flat - it has a little bit of the Yoshikane hard stop feeling IMO. Not a big deal but not the most natural/ergonomic profile either. Will do a little more side-by-side testing with my Spåre bunka and report back.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

Knife arrived safely with me this week. Haven't had the chance to use it much but first impressions were better than expected given the last few reviews. The handle is quite nice although a bit heavy for the blade. Good FnF, especially the rivets and tang being very smoothly flush with the scales.

Performance I thought was basically what you'd expect for a thin stock laser. Not what I usually gravitate towards but perfectly usable. Cuts smoothly, some sticking but not particularly bad.

As an all-around profile for a normie kind of user goes, it feels like the heel is a bit flat - it has a little bit of the Yoshikane hard stop feeling IMO. Not a big deal but not the most natural/ergonomic profile either. Will do a little more side-by-side testing with my Spåre bunka and report back.

Perfect, thank you. It will be interesting to hear your thoughts vs the Bunka. Definitely a better comparison than a chef based on size.
I hope they make a larger one someday because my Chopp 230mm is very similar but its a top notch knife.

 

[timebard]

The PKL is on its way to @Rotivator as @cwk.v bowed out.

Overall I liked this more than I expected. I generally prefer thicker and heftier blades with more balanced or blade forward balance points. Nevertheless this one was a reasonably enjoyable small gyuto and I didn't have any real issues with it's performance for what it is. Something like a Ginga probably cuts a little smoother but it felt pretty comparable to something like a Takamura but with much nicer fit and finish.

I think the interesting question is who this is a good fit for. I asked my wife (who has pretty average knife skills, sometimes uses my good gyutos but mostly goes for a Tanaka ginsan petty or vnox) how she liked it and her reactions were:

1. Wished it was just a little longer
2. Thought the blade felt too light
3. Didn't want the heel any higher, and maybe a little lower for utility work

So who's it a good fit for? For someone wanting to dip a toe in the hobby, I'd point them to a classic laser at a lower price point. For someone who really wants to ball out and get a one and done really high performer, there's a lot of makers who do nice AEB-L/Magnacut in higher performing midweight grinds. And not that many normal people want to drop $300 on a knife. I do think there's probably a market for it as a more mass-market-friendly alternative to one-man shops and Japanese options that has a more accessible vibe but still brings a solid level of performance.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

great feedback, thank you!!!

 

[Rotivator]

The PKL is on its way to @fortheloveofmoar
I recently had the opportunity to test drive the PKL, and will share my impressions.

I used this knife for a few weeknight meals and a large meal over the weekend.

The blade is thin, but I felt confident with it. It didn't love lengthwise cuts on carrots, but was a breeze for softer product.

Edge retention seems solid given how sharp it was for me.

Handle very comfortable, and the size made it very nimble.

The size is also a bit smaller than I usually use, but my wife found the size just right for her.

Outside of the smaller size, the only other main issue was food release. Definitely not terrible, but sticks a bit more than I would like and with the shorter height that can slow things a bit.

My overall impression is that it is a solid knife from a great set of makers. Clearly a lot of thought went into it. If I was looking for a low maintenance knife as a gift I would seriously consider the PKL It is a pretty great knife, for a solid price.

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

Confirming receipt in good condition. Will post my review later this week

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

OKay. I'm sorry to take so long in getting this done. The Fam and I have been under the weather so it's been ought to get anything done while just trying to keep it together.
So I'm not going to jump super deep into the cutting performance as lot of this is outlined in previous reviews but I'll quickly bullet point pros and cons. My main interest is going to be the price

Note: I did a quick stropping on a 0.1 micron diamond spray to touch it up but otherwise left is alone.
- despite being under the weather I think I did a decent amount of cooking: Getting a chicken noodle soup going with home made broth. Cutting up chicken (no bones), butternut squash, and sweet potatoes.

Thank you to Matt and the ACRE forge team for doing this pass around and allowing me the chance to use the knife!

pros:
- cuts nicely - nice laser with what thought was reasonable food release
- Handle was comfortable (with caveats in "cons")
- decent fit and finish- very comfortable in a pinch grip despite how thin it is out the handle.
- good length (for the average home cook - when I first started cooking a few years ago those large 210 were scary, so this would have been a perfect length for me. Now that I'm used to 240s it's hard to go lower than 210 for a gyuto/chef knife).
- great profile. good at rocking and push chopping no problems.
- hold a fine edge and sharpened up pretty fast (using diamond paste + strop).
- good stainless steel

areas for improvement?
- One caveat about the handle is it think I would have liked to see more form factor on the handle. like a little more girth where you wound pinch grip or fully palm the handle. But again, the handle was otherwise very serviceable.
- Price. :

Price/Market?
Disclaimer: I've been thinking about this on and off.
- I'm no expert on pricing and the knife market so these are just general layman observations.
- I do not mean to sound critical or mean or "negative". I just want to do my best in providing my thoughts on the matter so take it for what you think it's worth.
- I'm not questioning that this is a better knife than your shun/miyabi, wustoff, etc). this is a completely separate discussion of what performs or is better value.
- I figure the team has already thought about the market and marketing aspect so if there are responses to this I'd be curious what that markets looks like as I jumped right from your big box retailer knives hard into the "fine" artisan knives/J-knives.

I'm struggling to see where it fits in the market. The length and form factor makes me think its trying to compete with the likes of Shun, miyabi, wustoff (which I'll refer to as the big box brands) but fits right into what seems like Muteki /Carter cutlery is primary catering. I see that it is fitting in to sell to the general public who wants an alternative to your typical makers (rather than specifically knife enthusiasts who are looking to build collections and chase the makers or specific specs etc). So this is what leads me to question the price. Doing a general look through the starting offerings of the big box brand their prices start as low as 100s (maybe not miyabi) but then trail up quite a bit higher). The starting point of the ACRE - at least this knife is 300 which I'm guessing is the base model? So assuming this is true, I think the challenge is going to be:
1. Marketing this to the average consumer who is likely going to be interested in paying probably 100 to 200 - so I think the 300 may be a bit of a jump. Are they going to be able to adequately differentiate themselves to convince the consumer to pay the extra hundred or two to upgrade to their knife (which I do think is superior)?
2. How are they going to sell the knife (through local retailers or online)? Im probably just thinking about this from my "local" point of view in mid Wisconsin/ suburban Chicago that are primarily dominated by your big box retailers (with some local retailers, more so in Chicago than Wisconsin). nI'm guessing there is more of a local retailer presence that you can leverage in your home area where local retailers will help you sell vs working with your big box William Sonoma or whatever who are going to be pushing the big box knives.
3. Challenges in the online space - I feel like selling online is going to be challenging since there are so many other knives now competing with so many other brands that are targeting the general public like Misen, (now Babish), MAC, etc.


Anyways. sorry for the long post, hopefully something was helpful and not just a rant and the pondering of a lay person over something the team has already put a considerable amount of time ruminating.

I'll get the knife pictured, packed up, and shipped today/tomorrow to post no later by Tuesday to JustinV.

 

[Matt Jacobs]

I love the thought process and I think it's what they need to hear. Well done.

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

Okay I may have hit the angle low on the strop so the primary edge is a little large. Again only used a diamond strop. So minimal metal removed. My bad……

But…. I did an upgrade on the packaging of the knife.

@Justinv
I marked sides and orientation on the sides of how to pack it. The knife should also slip. Right out per the video

Edit: corrected bevel to edge.

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

Videos of inserting the blade into the little holster I made and the construction of its new little slip case.

 

[Justinv]

I received the knife today in good condition.
Initial impressions: It arrived pretty sharp, good enough to use for now. I didn’t like the appearance. In particular I really didn’t like the appearance of the handle. I also didn’t like the point on the spine the rounded “Carter Elbow”. Its pretty thin but light and nimble and has some convexity. It is very comfortable to hold. I do like shorter and lighter knives and I’ll compare it to a couple 170s I have.
Performance wise on initial use I found it lacked height and I could not effectively use my left hand to guide it through apple and radish. It also was lacking in food release. I have definitely used much worse but this is like half an apple sticking to it:

I don’t like stuff sticking twice the height of the knife. However I don’t recall the radish being as sticky.

I found it a pleasant cutter and comfortable in use. I only made some slaw. No issues with the profile in initial use.

 

[Justinv]

Some measurements:
138.26g
182mm edge length
46mm heigh at heel
40mm heigh middle
2.2mm thickness at heel
2.0mm thickness middle
~0.6mm thick 1cm from tip.

 

[brimmergj]

Knife made it to me safely

 

[Justinv]

The next recipient was @Juna but they never responded to my PM so I sent it to @brimmergj instead as he was next and we have interacted on several other pass arounds. I’ll post my comments soon, but my general opinion is this was a pleasant utility knife for small stuff but it needs more height, more bling, and much better food release to meet its stated objective and price.