Any opinion about Hiromoto honyaki gyuto.

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TheCaptain said:
WOW! What knives come in at higher than 62hrc?
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I've read that often times makers don't actually hit their targeted hrc, but that being said there's quite a few AS knives that are hrc 64 if not more and alot of honyakis are advertised at atleast hrc 63. Then there's watanabe, shig, fujiwara, kato and heiji all of which are probably higher than 62hrc just name a few.
 
Please... Unless it's a measured hrc it's very unreliable to go by feel. I sharpened a 54 rc carbon recently and would have taken it for a 60 by "feel".
 
Ok, showing my ignorance here - but is there that much of a difference between an hrc of 63 and one of 64? I get that there is a difference between, say a hrc of 52 vs. 62.

Reason I ask is I thought Watanabe went in the 63-65 range which is consistent as I've not noticed a marked difference in hardness from his blades to most of my other Japanese knives.

Yes it's easy to note the difference between my german knives and my better knives.

It will be interesting to see how my one honyaki will feel when I finally need to take it to the stones.

Probably more my inexperience speaking than anything else.
 
I think that almost all white Mizu Honyakis are aimed at 63/64, with final result being around 63.
My rose wood handle feels softer, the other 2 metal bolster, feel equally hard to Sukenari and Mizuno
 
TheCaptain said:
Ok, showing my ignorance here - but is there that much of a difference between an hrc of 63 and one of 64? I get that there is a difference between, say a hrc of 52 vs. 62.

Reason I ask is I thought Watanabe went in the 63-65 range which is consistent as I've not noticed a marked difference in hardness from his blades to most of my other Japanese knives.

Yes it's easy to note the difference between my german knives and my better knives.

It will be interesting to see how my one honyaki will feel when I finally need to take it to the stones.

Probably more my inexperience speaking than anything else.
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Well, that's tricky 😀. I doubt one could tell the difference between 63 and 64hrc or knives advertised at that hardness. But I can tell a difference between 59-60hrc and things like watanabe and others that are advertised at 63-65. And it's not like either group of hardness is superior to the other, just different characteristics arrive with diff level of hardness.
 
Most of the common knives out there are around 59/60 Hrc. The better ones are in 62 hrc region for high carbon steel. The tool steels are slightly higher.

I do find that 64/65 hrc is more chippy ( not micro chips).. does not mean more is better if you desire a more balanced knife in terms of usage .. occasional/ accidental contact with bones and seeds. It matters to me as being a mono steel ( for honyakis) , you may get a hairline crack line beyond the chip. May not be visible on San Mai knives as the hard steel is jacketed by a softer steel/iron.

Micro chips do not bother me as after a few light sharpenings, as the edge recedes.. it gets slightly thicker and thus adjusts to your use.

I do suspect that 63hrc is a sweet spot and I am looking for a maker to make a custom AEBL at 63hrc... as i do enjoy a mono stainless steel and i imagine tht the fine carbines wld allow it to be finely sharpened...

Just my views.... and do look for views from the makers who have done testings and also based on their vast experience rgds Z
 
63 is perfect for me and where I want to be with many steels. 62-64 is a good range to be in imo, for a very fine but stable edge. But 64 is pushing it on the fragile side, 64 and up requires a little thicker edge ime to deal with chippiness.
 
RDalman said:
63 is perfect for me and where I want to be with many steels. 62-64 is a good range to be in imo, for a very fine but stable edge. But 64 is pushing it on the fragile side, 64 and up requires a little thicker edge ime to deal with chippiness.
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Robin, do you find that to be the case over different steels cabon/tool/stainless/etc.?

I was told (Juergen Schanz who has a lot of experience with this steel) that, in the case of Niolox - there is no point going past 61HRC as the edge holding does not improve, just the blade gets more brittle. So I would expect that other steels may have yet different response to different HRC values.
 
Anton>>"Just be careful
Mine fractured, not sure how it even happened, small 1/4" fracture on spine"

Z >>>>Just curious.. is it is on the spine... a) is it a straight line b) inside the hamon or outside the hamon area?

The Captain...



"Reason I ask is I thought Watanabe went in the 63-65 range which is consistent as I've not noticed a marked difference in hardness from his blades to most of my other Japanese knives.

It will be interesting to see how my one honyaki will feel when I finally need to take it to the stones."

Z >>> Sharpening it may take more time.. Thus I either drop to a lower grit or increase pressure when progress is too slow... But when trying to thin it or removing the factory grit lines for polishing work with sandpapers..... that it becomes very apparent. Thinning it on a stone.... too will be a pain.

Note: I buy honyaki knives not with mirror polish.. and work on it to have finer lines and work towards high polish with finer grit lines as opposed to mirror polish.

Look fwd to more views as to the sweetspot for being 63hr
rgds z
 
Matus and Z (sorry everyone else for ot). First off keep in mind HRC is not everything, lets assume good grain size values and everything else "well done", (lesser grain will quench hard and perform less. Interesting chapter in Verhoeven). The 63 is for me a good starting point, I found it to be good for me with almost all low alloy steels. For elmax I experienced both edge retention gains and sharpenability stepping down to 61-62. The rwl I like 62-63, the Rigor (a2) felt really good at 63 too. All personal preference though.
 
Bump!
I’m having a difficult time deciding between a hiro honyaki 240mm and a ginga western 240mm wh2(blueway). I was looking to replace wakui in my kit with a mono steel but it’s difficult to decide if Hiromoto honyaki would be a good candidate as there seems to be conflicting reports of how thin it is behind the edge. The spine isn’t very thick so I’m surprised these things aren’t considered thin behind the edge. Maybe I should just rebuy another wakui 240mm.
Thoughts?
 
apparently they need some elbow grease to shine and then they are amazing. That’s what i have heard from a few buds that own them.
 
valgard said:
apparently they need some elbow grease to shine and then they are amazing. That’s what i have heard from a few buds that own them.
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I'm one and i went from Lukewarm to completely enamoured after smashing behind the edge. Stiff, heavy on account of western handle; super thin tip; cuts like a monster
 
Badgertooth said:
I'm one and i went from Lukewarm to completely enamoured after smashing behind the edge. Stiff, heavy on account of western handle; super thin tip; cuts like a monster
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Better than you Teruyasu Fujiwara maboroshi? Or just more rare?

I'm really intrigued by the hiromoto honyaki. I like to use my knives and this one looks great!
 
valgard said:
apparently they need some elbow grease to shine and then they are amazing. That’s what i have heard from a few buds that own them.
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fatboylim said:
Better than you Teruyasu Fujiwara maboroshi? Or just more rare?

I'm really intrigued by the hiromoto honyaki. I like to use my knives and this one looks great!
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The 240 metal bolster is ok thin to begin with behind the edge out of box. The 270 is on the thicker side of things out of the box. Both with thinning behind the edge will really come to life. Same for TF except it has harder steel with better edge retention. TF are generally ok thin behind edge especially the denkas.

my 180 and 270 after thinning and refinished.

rjTf3y9.jpg
 
This is interesting. I do find my 270 is relitavely thick behind the edge. How far up the blade (or at about what angle) have people been thinning?
 
Nemo said:
This is interesting. I do find my 270 is relitavely thick behind the edge. How far up the blade (or at about what angle) have people been thinning?
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Good question. I laid it nearly flat so rode up more than halfway. I then lifted in increments making my way back to the edge while retaining some convexity and more or less doing away with the distinction between primary and second bevel which is very pronounced on these OOTB. It's a beast now. It just feels right.
 
Badgertooth said:
Good question. I laid it nearly flat so rode up more than halfway. I then lifted in increments making my way back to the edge while retaining some convexity and more or less doing away with the distinction between primary and second bevel which is very pronounced on these OOTB. It's a beast now. It just feels right.
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Thanks for the feedback Badger
 
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