Best super steel knife ?

[chinacats]

Seems you have a bit of a negative bias towards takedas . In terms of what Jon has available in aogami super, in my opinion, I would take the takeda over any of his kurouchi clad AS knives. the takedas just look WAY better to the eye. with that being said, why is a custom grind and minute sizing differences a negative to a knife? and again, if someone is thinking about spending anything over $200 on a japanese kitchen knife, I would hope that they are either 1) a professional cook or 2) a true knife enthusiast who is also very keen on stone sharpening as well. so with point #2 being said, any "inconsistencies" (in what I've found to be pretty damn up to par factory edges on every Takeda I've come across thus far) should be easily worked out and that AS steel should be corrected and set for its intended use. for professional cooks like myself, I also choose to sharpen and maintain all of my knives myself and have the necessary tools to do so. although I do have a lot of cohorts and friends who choose to just have all of their knives maintained at our local cutlery as well. so like I said, if you're deep enough into this knife game to have found this forum, then most knives should be in the realm of possibility in terms of making it "sharp". so with that being said, knife choice really all comes down to 1) aesthetics and 2) SPECIFIC intended use for professional cooks and 3) specific intended use for super freaking serious at home cooks (which there are very few real ones). I hope you get the point i'm trying to make.

I actually have owned and like Takeda knives...I just feel that $400 is quite a bit of money to spend on a 'project knife'. My gyuto had a substantially thick area behind the edge, a handle that was much too skinny (with an ugly blob of glue at the end) and a kurouchi finish that was not stable. That would have required a few hours on the stones and a rehandle to satisfy me.

Curious why you would choose Takeda over Jon's ku clad AS? Have you tried them?

As to someone who would spend (well) over $200 on a J-knife and not be a pro or an experienced sharpener, this forum is full of those people.

I get your point, and agree with most of it, I'm just trying to point out to the OP that this is not a knife that you can just take out of the box and have it be the performance monster that she was looking for in her original post. If she buys a knife from Jon, at least she can be assured that out of box performance will rival most things available on the market.

Cheers

 

[IndoorOutdoorCook]

My opinion is a gift should be good to go out of the box. On the new Takedas I've seen, the shoulders need to be knocked off at least.

 

[Lilly]

This is a wonderful forum ! Thank you ALL for your opinions and suggestions.... i will look at every one of them.

 

[dands]

I actually have owned and like Takeda knives...I just feel that $400 is quite a bit of money to spend on a 'project knife'. My gyuto had a substantially thick area behind the edge, a handle that was much too skinny (with an ugly blob of glue at the end) and a kurouchi finish that was not stable. That would have required a few hours on the stones and a rehandle to satisfy me.

Curious why you would choose Takeda over Jon's ku clad AS? Have you tried them?

As to someone who would spend (well) over $200 on a J-knife and not be a pro or an experienced sharpener, this forum is full of those people.

I get your point, and agree with most of it, I'm just trying to point out to the OP that this is not a knife that you can just take out of the box and have it be the performance monster that she was looking for in her original post. If she buys a knife from Jon, at least she can be assured that out of box performance will rival most things available on the market.

Cheers

I said I would take the Takeda over Jon's AS kurouchi purely based on aesthetics. Not a single one of the AS knives that jon offers catches my eye what so ever. But like many people said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder (but I will point out that you seem to be in the minority when it comes to thinking that takedas are ugly). my factory edge was pretty up to par. the handle is like any other $3-400 wooden wa handle? and the epoxy you speak of? It is laid pretty nicely and is there to serve a purpose (to keep any moisture what so ever out).

Might I ask, are you a professional cook? (you said you would need to spend hours reshaping this blade and getting a custom handle for it?) My knife skills are good enough to a point where it doesn't really matter what knife you put in my hand as long as it is sharp. This is what sort of bugs me a lot on these forums I guess coming from a professional background, that people get so, so, so nitpicky about their knives that they maybe use once a week to cut a stalk of celery and a carrot and mince a quarter bunch of parsley. Come on, lets get real folks. Stop knocking products based on these types of personal peeves and work on your knife skills!

 

[dands]

My opinion is a gift should be good to go out of the box. On the new Takedas I've seen, the shoulders need to be knocked off at least.

On this note, I've been told quite a bunch of times from my local cutlery owners as well as some of the folks on these exact forums that these high end jknives come with a "standard" edge which is as much of a middle ground as the final sharpener can put on the edge before deeming it "dull" in one general purpose of use. They assume and expect the end user to manipulate and set their edges, bevels, thickness, angles, based on their specific needs. The edges that come from Japan on these Takedas are imo, exactly what I just said, a very general and basic edge that will do the job efficiently 95% of the time. That last 5% is only really experienced by those who push their techniques at home or those who work in a professional kitchen ie daily precision cuts for garnishes, getting good yield on portions, etc. So, those who have stones, should be in the know how to doctor their edge perfectly to their liking. And please, unless you're missing a few cells and buy a double bevel and decide to make it a single bevel, NO factory edge should ever require more than 30-45 minutes to get it to the users preferences.

 

[Dardeau]

I'm a pro, and as I stated above I saw a shipment of Takedas unpacked recently, maybe twenty five, and only a few had nice grinds. The factory edges are all just fine, but the grinds are all over the place.

I just sold a kurouchi Watanabe that handily outperforms one of the two Takedas I have used, and is about even with the other one that I know the owner out a lot of work into. These can be had with a nicer handle, cheaper.

There are a lot of knives I would buy before I bought a Takeda.

 

[James]

And please, unless you're missing a few cells and buy a double bevel and decide to make it a single bevel, NO factory edge should ever require more than 30-45 minutes to get it to the users preferences.

We're not really talking about the edge here per se; this is more about the grind and that (especially on some of the ones we've seen posted here) can definitely take more than 45 minutes to adjust.

OP, what do you think about the Syousin Chiku or Kurosaki AS? Sukenari also makes a damascus clad AS, but it's out of stock at the moment.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

I'm a pro, and as I stated above I saw a shipment of Takedas unpacked recently, maybe twenty five, and only a few had nice grinds. The factory edges are all just fine, but the grinds are all over the place.

I just sold a kurouchi Watanabe that handily outperforms one of the two Takedas I have used, and is about even with the other one that I know the owner out a lot of work into. These can be had with a nicer handle, cheaper.

There are a lot of knives I would buy before I bought a Takeda.

Yikes:bigeek: I have seen pictures on this forum of the fat grinds behind the edge. There is nothing wrong with my older Takeda which does not have that problem at all. Guess I got lucky buying an older blade off BST.

 

[Timthebeaver]

Takedas are nowhere near as good (consistency) and far more expensive than they used to be. QED.

 

[chefcomesback]

I said I would take the Takeda over Jon's AS kurouchi purely based on aesthetics. Not a single one of the AS knives that jon offers catches my eye what so ever. But like many people said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder (but I will point out that you seem to be in the minority when it comes to thinking that takedas are ugly). my factory edge was pretty up to par. the handle is like any other $3-400 wooden wa handle? and the epoxy you speak of? It is laid pretty nicely and is there to serve a purpose (to keep any moisture what so ever out).

Might I ask, are you a professional cook? (you said you would need to spend hours reshaping this blade and getting a custom handle for it?) My knife skills are good enough to a point where it doesn't really matter what knife you put in my hand as long as it is sharp. This is what sort of bugs me a lot on these forums I guess coming from a professional background, that people get so, so, so nitpicky about their knives that they maybe use once a week to cut a stalk of celery and a carrot and mince a quarter bunch of parsley. Come on, lets get real folks. Stop knocking products based on these types of personal peeves and work on your knife skills!

Don't want to turn this thread about takeda,
I agree on Chinacats statement , I am pro chef as well , knives are my hobby and I wish people stop being so romantic about their purchases and judge things by performance not the looks . That said older ones were apparently made lot better from what I had

 

[Lilly]

We're not really talking about the edge here per se; this is more about the grind and that (especially on some of the ones we've seen posted here) can definitely take more than 45 minutes to adjust.

OP, what do you think about the Syousin Chiku or Kurosaki AS? Sukenari also makes a damascus clad AS, but it's out of stock at the moment.

James... thanks for the suggestions.... i'll have a look.

 

[dands]

I'm a pro, and as I stated above I saw a shipment of Takedas unpacked recently, maybe twenty five, and only a few had nice grinds. The factory edges are all just fine, but the grinds are all over the place.

I just sold a kurouchi Watanabe that handily outperforms one of the two Takedas I have used, and is about even with the other one that I know the owner out a lot of work into. These can be had with a nicer handle, cheaper.

There are a lot of knives I would buy before I bought a Takeda.

You know, I've come across quite a few takedas but they've all been takedas of actual cooks. I've only seen a couple factory grinds/edges mine included. With that being said, can you go into a little bit more of a detail as to what was so bad about some of these grinds that you saw? The only thing I did with my knife out of the box was thin the blade a hair as well as a hair behind the edge (edge came convex ootb). I'm really curious as to what the huge inconsistencies are amongst the blades. And also, you're from NOLA. My buddies Jackie and Brandt opened up a cutlery in NOLA called Coutelier NOLA (they just opened up in the past 6 months). Have ya been at all?

 

[Lilly]

You know, I've come across quite a few takedas but they've all been takedas of actual cooks. I've only seen a couple factory grinds/edges mine included. With that being said, can you go into a little bit more of a detail as to what was so bad about some of these grinds that you saw? The only thing I did with my knife out of the box was thin the blade a hair as well as a hair behind the edge (edge came convex ootb). I'm really curious as to what the huge inconsistencies are amongst the blades. And also, you're from NOLA. My buddies Jackie and Brandt opened up a cutlery in NOLA called Coutelier NOLA (they just opened up in the past 6 months). Have ya been at all?

OMG ! thats FABULOUS about Coutelier NOLA ! .... I didnt know they were there....... i'll be in New Orleans in 3 weeks ! definitely stopping in !
thanks

 

[daveb]

A (Another) Takeda discussion is probably thread worthy on it's own. No need to derail thread and bury the OP in opinion and anecdotes with a Takeda pissing contest. Thanks.

@ dands A quick search on the site for Takeda will locate all kinds of detail of user's experiences. Plug "site:kitchenknifeforums.com Takeda" into google for a review of previous discussions.

 

[Dardeau]

I have! The shop is very cool, they are carrying a bunch of non knife stuff like good peelers and magazines that I think is going to make it a good place for the food scene here past just the knives.

It was actually Brandt unpacking Takedas where I got to see a big cross section of knives. I saw a 210mm suji, a 210 gyuto, and a couple of ko bunkas that looked really well ground. Some of the others looked a little porky.

Lilly, if you buy from a retailer in person like Coutelier you can evaluate the knife in person, making it a better knife for a gift.

When I first walked in
I realized I knew Jackie through a guy I worked with at Cochon. Did you work with her in SF?

 

[Lilly]

I have! The shop is very cool, they are carrying a bunch of non knife stuff like good peelers and magazines that I think is going to make it a good place for the food scene here past just the knives.

It was actually Brandt unpacking Takedas where I got to see a big cross section of knives. I saw a 210mm suji, a 210 gyuto, and a couple of ko bunkas that looked really well ground. Some of the others looked a little porky.

Lilly, if you buy from a retailer in person like Coutelier you can evaluate the knife in person, making it a better knife for a gift.

When I first walked in
I realized I knew Jackie through a guy I worked with at Cochon. Did you work with her in SF?

YES ! thats exactly what i was thinking ! I use to live in NOLA.... worked in the radio business there (a LOOOONG time ago).... use to eat t K Pauls ALL the time.... long before it was discovered.... back when New Orleans food was ONLY in New Orleans. lol
there was a little corner grocery up the street on Rampart, from where i worked, that had a kitchen in the back with cooks that really KNEW what they were doing....
AMAZING food !... and for CHEAP !
closed now but i have fond memories.

so YEAH ! i willl be stoppin in to pick a knife there... always better to buy in person if you can.