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Michael:

Shows like this are not all about selling knives, they are also about making a reputation. Bladeshows starts to show interest in kitchen knives as well, and this is great news for kitchen knife makers. The knife Daniel bought from Bill was sold out at once, long before it was on his website. All I can find now is this:
http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=89777

I am however still amazed about you blacksmiths not taking more control over your selling and buying. If I was a smith in US I would have met up with the good ones and made a common website with info and a webstore as well. Maybe hired a person to do marketing and branding as well as communicate with the press.
Product placement in different magazines and stuff like that. Its a win-win for everybody. The selling through KFF must be a minimum, after what I can tell...
 
Most of the guys here have pretty long wait lists. Maybe not infinitely long like Bob, but even the short ones are a couple months, and most are closer to a year or more. You should know this better than anyone Oivind! If they have orders lined up for the next year, how much more marketing do they need to do? If they could make stuff any faster, their wait lists would be shorter.
 
I know they have a long waiting list, but again they don't charge what they should. What a customer wants to pay is reflected in the size of the need. Ie:

How much are you wiling to pay for a gallon of gasoline? 1 dollar or maybe 10 dollar? (remember I don't know the normal price in US). This is because your need is small. Imagine being in the middle of nowhere, its winter, night and 50 miles to next gasoline station. What are you willing to pay when you run out of gas? 100 dollars? So the size of your need reflects the price.

The price is also set by a group of persons, and I think you are familiar with this:
supply_and_demand.gif



Even though Bill and Devin got a year waiting list, they don't take the right price. Since this is Bills forum, Ill use him as example:

Im buying a knife from Bill, i.e. 240 Guyto and with all my bling it will end up at 2700 USD. Bill starts to work on it, and due to materials, equipment and other expenses he might have 1800 as income. Those who don't know Bill here is something to read: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/printpost.php?tid/862213/

The short version: Bill puts down at least 60 hours of work on ONE knife, and if he ***** up the hours is even more. But lets hold on to 60 hours, working on my 2700 knife he will have an hour rate of: 2700 - 900 = 1500 / 60 = 25 dollar (this will not include taxes, retirement plan, insureanse and so on). I think this is not that much an hour

But I ordered a second from bill to 1400 (A small petty), the fun part is that this knife takes the same amount time to make and uses almost as much materials. Lets say he is left behind with 600 use on this divided by 60 = 10 dollars an hour. This is without taxes and ****.

I know Bill put like 100 hours into each of knives so I estimate his income of less than 10 USD an hour, and you think customs are expensive? Nah, they are actually cheap! They are too cheap, but alas there are not enough customers out there to raise the prices. I feel bad when I read that he needs to take an ordinary job to have some income.

So customs are actually cheap, they take much hard work to make just one knife (this is why a blade maker rarely take a order on just one small knife as it is supposed to be cheaper than a longer, yet takes as much materials and time). To raise the prices, you have to make the marked understand that its hard to make a knife, its a skill that involves a lot of passion and knowledge.

And common man doesn't hang on a forum to read about it, they need it served the way they understand it. When they understand it, their need will become bigger and then Bill and the gang can raise their prices. I saw in a post Sur La table offered 8" bob kramer limited edition machine manufactured for 1800 USD. And they will get it, because the story and the knives are served in a way customer likes and understand it.

Exuse my bad english, but Im trying to explain business here.

I am a man that truly respects Bill and I admire his work, I have not once tried to argue on his prices. And I will not ever argue with him. Im just extremely happy to have the opportunity to have some of his knives, and even though Im not a rich man Ive payed my knives over time with him.
 
That's good and all, Oivind, but I was asking Bill if anyone actually sold a knife to a regular customer at the Idaho show. I was thinking that I might go back next year if I thought I might actually sell a knife. My waiting list is up near a year with orders right now and in order to go to a show, it has to be worth it to me to get some "extra" knives worked up. Sure the socializing at a show is nice and the meet-n-greet aspect is nice, but if I can't pay for the show while I'm there, then I'm not going. I should make a graph on that...

-M
 
Well, you don't need to make a graph ;)

But titles are important, so a Best in Show knife, will make you be able to raise your prices :)
Customers want the best of the best ;)
To build a reputation, you need to get to shows, to appear in media and so on ;)

Sometimes you have to invest to get right price for your knives .)
Bob Kramer is an artist, he appears in the media, he has a strategic relationship to stores like SLT and stuff like that. He invested in reputation, branding and marketing :)
 
I bought one of Devin's show blades after the Las Vegas knife show last year, but it was sold through Wisconsin Mark after the fact. IMO, if the knife show buzz is threaded on the forum with pictures (WIPs and event pictures), I think it creates a forum buzz and the knives probably have a better chance of selling quickly on the retail vendor market (if not sold at the show).

k.
 
I don't think Bob Kramer invested anything into his marketing Oivind. I believe he just was contacted by Saveur out of the blue, and blew up overnight. Sure, now that he has that publicity he does more articles and things with SLT - but I don't think he ever made a conscious decision to brand himself.
 
oivind_dahle said:
But titles are important to sheeple, so a Best in Show knife, will make you be able to raise your prices so only people who don't really know about knives but can afford expensive, shiny things can buy them :)
Customers with a lot of disposable income want the best of the best ;)
To build a reputation of a maker that people who really need/ use knives look upon warily, you need to get to shows, to appear in media and so on ;)

Sometimes you have to invest to get the maximum price for your knives .)
Bob Kramer is an artist, he appears in the media, he has a strategic relationship to stores like SLT and stuff like that. He invested in reputation, branding and marketing :) Yet despite all of this, he still makes very nice knives!
Click to expand...
FTFY ;)

Oivind, you would do well here in the US. The hype machine works very well over here.
 
Michael Rader said:
Good point Mr. D. And Oivind, how many knife shows does Bob Kramer go to?
-M
Click to expand...

AFAIK he is done with knife shows. However he is on tv, in magazines and different places to brand himself.
And thats why I wonder why not blade smiths come together and start to build their reputation :)

BK is a master of branding and marketing, he is handsome and can appear on tv and shows. He also speaks well, and hypes his own knives.
Ill bet a poor knife maker would do great with the right marketing skills :)
 
Yeah, marketing is key to a lot of this and "hype" does sell knives, that is for sure. I really like Bob and what he has done to help. A rising tide lifts all boats. It's a good thing.

-M
 
No argue there :)

BK has done a lot for the knife makers. I cant afford his knives, but he seams like a really nice guy.
 
Michael, sorry for the delay. There where a few knives sold that Daniel didn't buy but all in all I think that he bought the majority.
 
It's all good, Bill. I love it when Daniel buys knives at shows, but I really don't consider it a good show when he is the top buyer there... you know what I mean? We all can sell knives to Blade Gallery whenever we want, so why go to the show? (I mean from a sales - not socializing perspective.)

Yup, Mr. D. 'fraid so, and I gots me a big ol' Kimber .45 on my hip too :)

...actually I do!

-M
 
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