BREXIT

[mark76]

Last weekend I read in my paper a piece by Joris Luyendijk, titled "Why the EU should say goodbye to the Brits". It was mainly about the way the Brits are sabotaging the EU. To cheer you guys up (everybody who thinks the Brits should stay and is a bit sad now), I wanted to post a link. Unfortunately the article is in Dutch only.

Fortunately, when searching for the article, I found a column Joris wrote for the Guardian last January. His opinion is very stable. And the column is surprisingly up to date: it's partly about what the EU should do if the Brits would vote for a Brexit: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...turn-tables-bullying-britain-david-cameron-eu . I particularly like his idea that the EU should now make a nice offer to Scotland :laugh: (this guy has a wicked and British sense of humor).

 

[alterwisser]

#brexit

 

[jessf]

Ha. Seriously though. The level of xenophobia im hearing in the news in general is distressing. Maybe the EU could return to the pre WWI era of separation. Anyone named Franz shouldn't ride in an open top car...

View attachment 32360 #brexit

 

[MAS4T0]

It's going to be very damaging for us, but I honestly do think that the rest of the EU are better off without us and have already put up with too much BS from us..

The majority here were not in favour of leaving, at least until recently, but the leave campaign has been very well funded...

 

[alterwisser]

It's going to be very damaging for us, but I honestly do think that the rest of the EU are better off without us and have already put up with too much BS from us..

The majority here were not in favour of leaving, at least until recently, but the leave campaign has been very well funded...

The most eye popping statistic is that mostly older people voted yes, but the younger ones will have to live with the consequences... And they voted 64% IN!

In difficult times people don't like to listen to reason, they listen to the ones who scream the loudest and blame others.

Exhibit 1) Donald Drumpf

Exhibit 2) a certain Austrian painter


SMH

 

[Matus]

I find the point of views on this topic very refreshing and I am humbly thankful for that. What a contrast to those flying bags of poo over at online news comments sections.

 

[Matus]

I love this

View attachment 32360 #brexit

 

[mikedtran]

I love this

+1 this picture kills me hahah

 

[Asteger]

Good luck to the Brits. I hope this works out like they believe it will.

I wouldn't say that. The 'leave' camp consisted of Wales and non-London rural England, especially the old folks. Grumpy spoilsports.

Everyone I know's gutted. Myself, confounded, but will enjoy the opportunity to throw the odd quip their way like below:

View attachment 32360 #brexit

Haha! The choice is clear, and the beans aren't originally even British

 

[MAS4T0]

The most eye popping statistic is that mostly older people voted yes, but the younger ones will have to live with the consequences... And they voted 64% IN!

I saw that too.

This is what I meant about the funding; I spoke to a lot of these people and they were flipping back and forth based on which side of the argument they'd heard most recently; an advert airing just before they leave for the polling station could have made all the difference. The campaign achieved a lot by convincing the elderly that it was what was best for their grandchildren. When I asked them why leaving was best for their grandchildren, they couldn't give an answer, but they were convinced that it was the case.

The other side of it is that they're the only ones who almost bear no risk - state pension increases with cost of living, so if prices go up they're expecting to be covered.

 

[mark76]

LOL. I also wanted to quote Alterwisser´s pic, but that has been done twice already . Great pic!

I agree with nearly everybody here. Which is kind of fun, since we found each other as knife lovers, but secretly - and now not so secretly - seem to share a lot of political ideas.

Something that's been in the back of my head for years, but I hardly ever dared to say in an international context: the fact that Germany lost the last major war is a good thing for them and for Europe. It makes them a lot more humble and nicer. In fact, countries that suffered most from the war, like Poland, Belgium and Holland nowadays kind of like Germany in an international political context. (They're still the major opponent in a soccer tournament, of course .)

And the fact that Britain won this war has made them more arrogant (partly because they hardly seem to realize they lost an entire world empire in the meantime ). France piggybacking on the allies as the winners didn't do much good for their attitude either. The only thing I wonder is where suddenly the Spanish attitude comes from on a day like today to claim Gibraltar again.

Tomorrow the ministers of foreign affairs of the six founders of the EU are coming together in (of course) Berlin to discuss what to do. Let's hope the seriousness of the situation has finally come through to our leaders. Otherwise this might well be the starting point for the disintegration of Europe. People like Marine Le Pen, Norbert Hofer and Geert Wilders are ready to take over.

 

[Dan P.]

The real shame with this referendum and its result is that so many people seemed to be voting according to which flavour of spurious but sensational drivel most appealed to their sensibilities. Both campaigns were equally guilty. There were good and rational reasons to vote either way, but as so often they seem to have gotten lost in all the squawking.

 

[Matus]

Well put Mark. Interesting view on the historical influence of the current position of the major EU players - worth a though indeed.

Yes - what scares me more than Brexit is the rise of ultra nationalistic movements across EU which have nothing to offer apart of hate that comes from the discontent with the social situation. These movements were always there, but were much less relevant and mostly concentrated around major sports events - they have stepped up the game and we should realise the danger they carry.

 

[alterwisser]

LOL. I also wanted to quote Alterwisser´s pic, but that has been done twice already . Great pic!

I agree with nearly everybody here. Which is kind of fun, since we found each other as knife lovers, but secretly - and now not so secretly - seem to share a lot of political ideas.

Something that's been in the back of my head for years, but I hardly ever dared to say in an international context: the fact that Germany lost the last major war is a good thing for them and for Europe. It makes them a lot more humble and nicer. In fact, countries that suffered most from the war, like Poland, Belgium and Holland nowadays kind of like Germany in an international political context. (They're still the major opponent in a soccer tournament, of course .)

And the fact that Britain won this war has made them more arrogant (partly because they hardly seem to realize they lost an entire world empire in the meantime ). France piggybacking on the allies as the winners didn't do much good for their attitude either. The only thing I wonder is where suddenly the Spanish attitude comes from on a day like today to claim Gibraltar again.

Tomorrow the ministers of foreign affairs of the six founders of the EU are coming together in (of course) Berlin to discuss what to do. Let's hope the seriousness of the situation has finally come through to our leaders. Otherwise this might well be the starting point for the disintegration of Europe. People like Marine Le Pen, Norbert Hofer and Geert Wilders are ready to take over.

I might add the Brits needed the Yankees' help to win it... not sure you should be arrogant about that accomplishment [emoji6]

 

[Dan P.]

Something that's been in the back of my head for years, but I hardly ever dared to say in an international context: the fact that Germany lost the last major war is a good thing for them and for Europe. It makes them a lot more humble and nicer. In fact, countries that suffered most from the war, like Poland, Belgium and Holland nowadays kind of like Germany in an international political context. (They're still the major opponent in a soccer tournament, of course .)

And the fact that Britain won this war has made them more arrogant (partly because they hardly seem to realize they lost an entire world empire in the meantime ).

Interesting theory! I wonder how, for instance, the Greeks feel about this?
There are some who all along have been muttering darkly "1914... 1939... 2016"
Maybe it's not the Brits who are still hurting over lost dreams of empire?
Personally I voted remain, but it was never a black and white question, even if our old people, xenophobes and assorted political clowns tried to make it appear that way.

 

[zetieum]

I am french. I live in germany for 8 years, and before that in Scotland for 2 years. I am scientist working with frenchies, brits, germans, dutch, swiss, greeks etc. I am fervent European partisan. It is a sad day. I hope that this will trigger a rethinking of the EU. I would like to see a federation of countries before I die: the United States of Europe. Maybe not with the remaining 27, but a least with the 6 founder countries. I hope Scotland will become independent and will join EU.

In term of knives. Well I will definitively buy some knives from UK in the coming days to enjoy the low exchange rate of the British pound. That is short term. But long term: knives in UK are going to be more expensive, because they are payed in $ or yen. Customers from EU will stop buying from online shops in UK because of custom taxes (look at Switzerland).

What will become more attractive are knives made in UK. So my question: what are the good custom knife maker in UK?

EDIT: I guess Dan just above ^ . I am looking forward to read more reviews of your knives actually.

 

[Asteger]

I might add the Brits needed the Yankees' help to win it... not sure you should be arrogant about that accomplishment [emoji6]

Indeed. They would have been toast without it, along with H's odd decision to hold back on the beaches of Dunkirk. Help came from all the Commonwealth before that too, don't forget.

I agree with nearly everybody here. Which is kind of fun, since we found each other as knife lovers, but secretly - and now not so secretly - seem to share a lot of political ideas.

I wouldn't be so quick to say this. We aren't allowed political discussions here, but you see the odd inclination and it's not difficult to imagine. There are definitely some crazies about. Probably safer discussing goings on on the Euro side of the Atlantic than the other, unless you also are happy to mention Canada as well.

 

[aboynamedsuita]

As a firm european believer I am quite bummed out...these times call for more solidarity and cooperation rather than nationalism and separatism ...oh well ...at least a weak pound will make a knife buy from a certain English store quite attractive ...

The most eye popping statistic is that mostly older people voted yes, but the younger ones will have to live with the consequences... And they voted 64% IN!
In difficult times people don't like to listen to reason, they listen to the ones who scream the loudest and blame others.

Some good posts guys, as an outsider looking in I would've preferred for a "remain".

Probably safer discussing goings on on the Euro side of the Atlantic than the other, unless you also are happy to mention Canada as well.

Canada is technically a constitutional monarchy, we still have the Governor General to give royal assent to legislation on behalf of the queen. I can't help but wonder if Quebec is going to try and leave (again), or if the uk will still have to pay vat at JNS :groucho:

I see this as a prime example of why the majority shouldn't always rule.

There was a time in Canada when a certain class of persons vote counted as 3/5ths that of others… perhaps a similar model could be applied elsewhere in certain situations moving forward.

 

[Devon_Steven]

The real shame with this referendum and its result is that so many people seemed to be voting according to which flavour of spurious but sensational drivel most appealed to their sensibilities. Both campaigns were equally guilty. There were good and rational reasons to vote either way, but as so often they seem to have gotten lost in all the squawking.

Indeed; it makes me angry.

To a large extent the anti-EU sentiment on the UK has been driven for decades by misleading articles in the popular press. People end up voting based on misinformation peddled by the elite owners of media groups who, of course, distribute a message that will suit them (and not necessarily what will suit the majority of the population).

 

[playford]

I think people need a massive sense of perspective here. Its currently 1 GBP to approx 1.24E, In the past few years it was as low as 1-1 and as high as 1.4E. The market is reacting to the shock, uncertainty and people panic pulling of investments. They will come up, personally a lot of shares in a lot of very decent companies with long track records just went on sale. Basically, it will come back up. My only worry are things like people getting loans and mortgages as banks want to build up reserves and become more risk adverse, I'd expect the housing market to slow or dip slightly (no bad thing IMO).

This will be resolved through negotiations with the EU. It's in everyone's interests for trade to continue.

 

[MAS4T0]

I think people need a massive sense of perspective here. Its currently 1 GBP to approx 1.24E, In the past few years it was as low as 1-1 and as high as 1.4E.

The exchange rate relative to USD is the real issue; it's the lowest it's been in over 30 years. The majority of trade with China is conducted in USD so this drop will likely mean price increases across the board and will result in a significant number of companies falling into bankruptcy.

 

[chiffonodd]

There is a strange and frightening sentiment in the air these days. I am reminded often of Yeats' verse:

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

[ . . . ]

The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

 

[stevenStefano]

I can't remember ever feeling like I did when I woke up and saw the result, honestly it was hard to describe the atmosphere in my work. Hard to put into words exactly how I feel, but I agree with others that I think many people have basically been conned into believing leaving the EU is a good thing. The UK is basically over now, Scotland will almost certainly vote for independence and rejoin the EU and Northern Ireland is totally screwed. The EU gives a massive amount of money to Northern Ireland, which will now stop and also the border between north and south will return. the whole peace process has pretty much been undermined.

London, Northern Ireland and Scotland all voted to stay which is sad

Trying to be optimistic, I think things will return to some normality and I think the EU will end anyway and be replaced by something where all countries retain more of their independence

 

[Asteger]

Probably safer discussing goings on on the Euro side of the Atlantic than the other, unless you also are happy to mention Canada as well.

Canada is technically a constitutional monarchy, we still have the Governor General to give royal assent to legislation on behalf of the queen. I can't help but wonder if Quebec is going to try and leave (again), or if the uk will still have to pay vat at JNS :groucho:

True, and I still remember Her Majesty's photographs in my high school cafeteria, but I'd bet a significant number of Cdns still don't even realise how it all officially still works. My point anyway was that we'd be quite a bit less likely to get offended if someone were to start calling the leader of the opposition or potential future PM a nutter. We're not supposed to post about political stuff here, but seems it's actually okay (several messages into this thread) so long as it's about Canada or the EU, or about newly ex-EU states etc, and not the southern neighbours. (Shhh!) I guess that makes us all civil then.

 

[idemhj]

Brexit is a true disaster. The EU is very far from perfect, but the only feasible solution is to stay and fight. The only good thing that may come of it is Scotland leaving the UK... For you Americans it may all seem a bit academic, for us Europeans it is so, so, so disheartening... It's even worse than Trump... (If this is to politcal, please delete)

 

[Asteger]

For you Americans it may all seem a bit academic, for us Europeans it is so, so, so disheartening... It's even worse than Trump... (If this is to politcal, please delete)

Not fond of the impression that the only people here are Europeans (incl. ex-Euros, ie. Brits) and Americans. KKF is too US-centric at times - slowly less so over time, even if one must admit it's based there - but it's not as simple as that.

 

[alterwisser]

Not fond of the impression that the only people here are Europeans (incl. ex-Euros, ie. Brits) and Americans. KKF is too US-centric at times - slowly less so over time, even if one must admit it's based there - but it's not as simple as that.

Does that make me the worst offender, as a European living in the US? J/k ...

Please note that I said "European", not "German"! [emoji6]🇪🇺