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I guess style choices (Bolsters, Profiles) ... that's a Les Paul vs HSH Strat vs Tele discussion...

But isn't someone marketing a (probably alright) knife with terms that would suggest very exceptional material and quality (bulat), suggesting his VG10 dam is so much better than other VG10 dam, the actual snob respectively snob enabler?
 
All these kickstarter projects always seem like a cross between carnival slicer/dicer pitchman and a "save the poor kids in Africa/South America" charity trying to shame you into donating. The world is full of knifemaking companies at every price level. I can think of no reason why a kickstarter is going to produce something better than what is already available on the market.
 
I guess being part of a fashion being made is sexy in itself these days... getting some "designer getting filthy rich" scent to rub off on you...

I love how part of the hipster culture remixes tradition with a modern viewpoint - but appropriating symbols and terms in a way that disrespects/damages them (or abuses your respect for marketing purposes!) is a very unwelcome aspect.
 
alterwisser said:
So if anyone is interested in doing something about it and develop a REAL knife for the masses, Kickstarter and all, PM me... I'd be happy to join a group to get that project going and can help with insight from a good related startup I invested in.

Thanks. Happy Tuesday ;)
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I'd love to see this happen
 
alterwisser said:
I agree. We tend to be a bit snobby around here when it comes to knives (daaaah), but given the target audience and the crap those folks are using, this can't be THAT bad. I mean, kudos: he did a great job convincing people to give him quite a few bucks.

Would a Tojiro DP be a smarter/cheaper choice? For sure, but it's not marketed In a way for regular users to know about it. Plus: most folks will want some "bling" when spending a little more on a knife, and the Tojiro sure as hell does not sparkle LOL.

Every time there's someone on Kickstarter with a knife project, we ***** and complain here (sorry, just having an honest day, excuse my German traits lol). So if anyone is interested in doing something about it and develop a REAL knife for the masses, Kickstarter and all, PM me... I'd be happy to join a group to get that project going and can help with insight from a good related startup I invested in.

Thanks. Happy Tuesday ;)
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Agreed. I posted the original link, yet I would never buy one. At the same time, with Misen and this one, it shows that there seems to be demand for better knives at the a certain price point that more accessible for the masses.

Would love to see s project like this too, will definitely pitch in.
 
I am actually curious about the quality of the knives once it goes into full production. The prototypes might be good considering how much attention each blade is given. But once it goes into manufacturing, how good can the quality control be.
 
Has anyone thought about the fact about the only place you can go for this kind of contract cutlery manufacturing is main land China or maybe Taiwan (higher price)?
 
I'm bothered on several levels by this sort of thing when it comes up. It's not the Kickstarter aspect, or that someone is looking to make a product/business, or their success being seen - I'm fine with all that.

The things that bug the living **** out of me...


1. The, "I was looking for a knife to suit my special requirements and couldn't find it so I designed a better knife that I'm now willing to share with you", story these guys all use. PLEASE!!

2. The hipster millennial metro-sexual aspect of the whole thing is just too much for this guy to handle. It's almost like these guys are all cookie cutter testicle-less robots or something - certainly nothing like (actually the complete opposite of) the average knife maker I've come to know over the years.

3. The hip & trendy short art films. Disingenuous at best.

4. Autocad - freaking AUTOCAD!?!?

5. And finally, the knives themselves.

The knives are nothing more than upscale Target Caphalon Furi brand type knives. They're all mostly Chinese made, nothing special or extraordinary about them. In fact I could find examples of better knives for the money in every case.

So maybe the knives are OK for some people out there in know-nothing-about knives-land I've heard about, I get it, but when they're presented as something special then dammit - make them special!


:my2cents:
 
I guess at a 100+ bucks price point you could get it contract manufactured in much better places and still make a profit with economics of scale...
 
I get all the arguments against these kind of campaigns, and I don't want to defend the guy, or any of the kickstarter guys ... but a couple of points

1) They don't have to make a better knife. They don't owe anyone anything

2) They are focusing on Marketing. We might hate that, but a lot of companies do that. Differentiating by product or quality or whatever other tangible aspect is harder and harder this days. If you want to reach a mass market, you better BS with the best of them

3) They don't want or need to convince us, the knife nerds.

4) If I would be looking at making a real living by starting a knife making business, I would take a similar approach. Yes, I would try to make a better product than they are, but first and foremost I would do massive amounts of research and figure out how I could target a mass produced knife to a large audience. And that would include a lot of Marketing/PR/Social etc. I mean, we all hate Chelsea Millers knives here, right? But she found her niche, she knows the audience she caters to and apparently is successful with that. I take my hats off to her. Nobody has to buy her knives, or any other knife for that matter.

I used to laugh about people telling me they have great knives, and then showing me their Henckels set from Macys. But you know, they also shake their heads when I tell them I just spent close to $800 on a custom knife. Live and let live. I try to educate them when they seek my advice, and more and more people do. I am happy to guide them as much as I can ...

And yes, I am serious. If anyone wants to discuss making a great product for the mass market, at a decent price ... I am happy to get together and discuss it. And I am sure some people would bash that product if it ever came to life ... and yes, I would absolutely want to have some kind of 2590 layers or other gimmick for that knife, just because you need something like that to market it to the masses IMHO.

End of rant. Don't hate me ... but if you do, let it be known that you're not the only ones today LOL
 
Noodle Soup said:
Has anyone thought about the fact about the only place you can go for this kind of contract cutlery manufacturing is main land China or maybe Taiwan (higher price)?
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Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that.

One thing I didn't quite understand was the pie chart/"out of date business model" part. I presume that it is not terribly hard to have a factory make a knife to your design. You just have to give them enough money. I'm assuming you would pay wholesale prices, or, actually, somewhat more to have your own design realized, and then you sell it with your retail mark-up. So it seems like that whole part of the sales pitch is pure hot air. Right? Their retail price is just lower because they sell online.

Sorry, just picking at this because the kickstarter thing hadn't really occurred to me before, and while I believe I am a pretty good smith, I know for a fact that I'm a terrible businessman.
 
Ironically, I want a German Rock Chopper made out of something better than 1.4116. The lower HRC and high dps looks well suited to that use too.

I just have too much respect for the russian bulat makers, and for makers like Roselli that do similar steels, to want to support someone misusing that label.

What irks me about the popularity of VG10 in knives sold to cooking but not knife enthusiasts... while it's sturdy stuff, why the choice of one of the hardest to sharpen steels?
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
Ironically, I want a German Rock Chopper made out of something better than 1.4116. The lower HRC and high dps looks well suited to that use too.

I just have too much respect for the russian bulat makers, and for makers like Roselli that do similar steels, to want to support someone misusing that label.

What irks me about the popularity of VG10 in knives sold to cooking but not knife enthusiasts... while it's sturdy stuff, why the choice of one of the hardest to sharpen steels?
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I don't find it that bad to work with. Depends on the maker/stone set up IMO.
 
BTW, f...ing Gehring. In Germany. They make garden variety VG10 damascus knifes. State they make them in Germany. At a retail price that is competitive. Even did special editions for big german supermarkets at various times.
 
Dave, what the heck is wrong with AutoCAD? I know I could produce a better/ more consistent blade outline/ cutting template in AutoCAD then I could with a pencil and paper. Heck, you could play around with profiles, grind patterns, etc. and look them over in 3D to see how ideas might pan out versus making maybe a couple dozen test grinds. Might enable you to narrow it down to a handful of profiles to try grinding, and reduce your overall product development time (and thus cut the costs).

'Course you could also go further and generate models that you can use for structural analysis, but that would get silly :)
 
WildBoar said:
Dave, what the heck is wrong with AutoCAD? I know I could produce a better/ more consistent blade outline/ cutting template in AutoCAD then I could with a pencil and paper. Heck, you could play around with profiles, grind patterns, etc. and look them over in 3D to see how ideas might pan out versus making maybe a couple dozen test grinds. Might enable you to narrow it down to a handful of profiles to try grinding, and reduce your overall product development time (and thus cut the costs).

'Course you could also go further and generate models that you can use for structural analysis, but that would get silly :)
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I'm not a knife drawer, I'm a knife maker (not a money maker either). LOL :D

Hey I appreciate Autocad for what it is and what it gets used for, no arguments from me on what it can do, I just cringe at the thought of sitting down with a computer to design a knife, that's just me.
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
I guess style choices (Bolsters, Profiles) ... that's a Les Paul vs HSH Strat vs Tele discussion...

But isn't someone marketing a (probably alright) knife with terms that would suggest very exceptional material and quality (bulat), suggesting his VG10 dam is so much better than other VG10 dam, the actual snob respectively snob enabler?
Click to expand...

As someone who is an enthusiast, i have no idea what bulat steel is. So i think there is no issue with confusion. Especially not when he clearly states the steel and bulat is only a product name and never referred to as the type of steel.

If you know what bulat steel is you should also know that this knife ain't it.
 
WildBoar said:
Dave, what the heck is wrong with AutoCAD? I know I could produce a better/ more consistent blade outline/ cutting template in AutoCAD then I could with a pencil and paper. Heck, you could play around with profiles, grind patterns, etc. and look them over in 3D to see how ideas might pan out versus making maybe a couple dozen test grinds. Might enable you to narrow it down to a handful of profiles to try grinding, and reduce your overall product development time (and thus cut the costs).

'Course you could also go further and generate models that you can use for structural analysis, but that would get silly :)
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You say silly. I say genius 😀.

Plus when mass produced some form of cad is necessary. Give it a couple of years and people will be 3D printing knives. Think of the fun/easy of refining geometry and profile with that.
 
Dave Martell said:
I'm not a knife drawer, I'm a knife maker (not a money maker either). LOL :D

Hey I appreciate Autocad for what it is and what it gets used for, no arguments from me on what it can do, I just cringe at the thought of sitting down with a computer to design a knife, that's just me.
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And that is why you are our man
Rather be at a grinder belting out one perfect knife then a computer designing one that can pump out 100 a day

I have no issue with this knife etc. It is aimed at a target that isn't us. It will cut food perfectly well for lots or people. That's its purpose.
 
Dan P. said:
Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that.

One thing I didn't quite understand was the pie chart/"out of date business model" part. I presume that it is not terribly hard to have a factory make a knife to your design. You just have to give them enough money. I'm assuming you would pay wholesale prices, or, actually, somewhat more to have your own design realized, and then you sell it with your retail mark-up. So it seems like that whole part of the sales pitch is pure hot air. Right? Their retail price is just lower because they sell online.

Sorry, just picking at this because the kickstarter thing hadn't really occurred to me before, and while I believe I am a pretty good smith, I know for a fact that I'm a terrible businessman.
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You wouldn't be getting to hand-make all the knives for the Kickstarter, though, you'd just be the guy requesting a basic knife from a Chinese factory and selling them to the masses. I don't think you'd have a whole lot of fun doing it.
 
I don't think these guys selling the knives are terrible human beings, but I couldn't sit there and tell you as "a knife enthusiast" that this VG-10 Wusthof is the best thing ever that I pain-stakingly crafted.

The video has a disingenuous feel that I dislike. Granted, if you don't know **** about knives, you might end up with the best knife you've ever used for $80 bucks.
 
****** hipsters with the fake grass roots nonsense. It's "turf" roots is what it is. Why would anyone want a bolster like that? And, why would anyone that knows nothing about knives want a bolster like that? Why would you print in 3d if for no other reason than to appeal to the burgeoning 3d printer scene?

Gawd, don't support these kinds of people.
 
oldcookie said:
Lol, after Bulat, KS shows me this on the homepage...

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...fined-chef-knife-made-in-the?ref=home_popular
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Wow… just reeks of marketing BS:
After more than 30 prototypes since December 2015 we are now ready to go. A new high-quality standard for sharpness has been realized: In cooperation with US based research and development institute we created the first chef knife that uses ULTRA NANO ZIRCONIA particles. The KYTCHO POWER BLADE is ULTRA SHARP has a HIGH DENSITY and stays sharp FOREVER.
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Count me amongst those that doesn't understand the outrage here. Not that I'm interested in buying one. It's for a totally different market. Plus, it's not like they're forcing any one here to buy one. Let the market decide. If it's a worthwhile knife for it's target market, it'll do well. If not, it'll die out. Done.

Also, I've seen a couple mentions of "hipsters". You guys realize that WE'RE the hipsters of the kitchen knife world, right?

-RJ
 
The Misen boys are now selling "futures" on their passitby knife online. They still hadn't delivered a single unit.


Rick
 
Matus said:
Well, that looks at least material-wise like a considerable improvement to ceramic knives. Design does not call my nae, but they do seem to have managed to improve the impact toughness a lot ...
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And they address the Made in China concern that some people have. :) Made in the USA.

When they started cutting a can, reminded me of ginsu infomercials...
 
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