Burn Remedies?

[olpappy]

Actually here is a more accurate classification of burns, the one I gave was a quick and dirty version but not exactly perfect, so here is a more detailed one:

http://www.burnsurvivorsttw.org/burns/degree.html

 

[FryBoy]

...1/2nd degree burns, if possible apply ice as soon as possible. This will stop the burn damage from worsening and reduce inflammation. In some cases it can minimize or avoid blistering....

The Mayo Clinic link I provided above specifically says not to apply ice to 1st or 2nd degree burns:

Cool the burn. Hold the burned area under cool (not cold) running water for 10 or 15 minutes or until the pain subsides. If this is impractical, immerse the burn in cool water or cool it with cold compresses. Cooling the burn reduces swelling by conducting heat away from the skin. Don't put ice on the burn.
​

Comment?

 

[Delbert Ealy]

Sorry to be late to this thread. I am a medical doctor, I will give you the straight scoop as simply as possible. Burns are classified as follows:}

1st degree - redness, no blistering
2nd degree - blistering of skin
3rd degree - damage to underlying muscle and tissue

Most burns of 1st and 2nd degree can be treated out of hospital, 3rd degree you go to a burn unit. 1/2nd degree burns, if possible apply ice as soon as possible. This will stop the burn damage from worsening and reduce inflammation. In some cases it can minimize or avoid blistering.

Don't worry too much about OTC creams and stuff, they won't make much difference. Aloe (sap of the actual cactus plant) can help somewhat for minor 1st degree burns, don't know how much of it if any is in those creams they sell.

Silver sulfadiazine (Silvadene) is for burns that blister and peel. Once the skin is broken it is vulnerable to infection, the Silvadene has antibacterial properties to prevent infection. Usually the area is covered with gauze to facilitate cleaning and hygiene. 1st degree burns you can take care of at home, 2nd degree burns it's just easier to go to your Dr's office and have the staff there clean and dress it. Also, if the injury occurred at work, it will help to have medical records documenting the injury for purposes of Workman's Compensation.

Working with hot steel I have had all three.
Fortunately I have had only one third degree burn and it was really more of a 2.5 seriuos damage to skin, charring actually, but only minor damage to underlying tissue. No skin graft necessary. The wierd thing was I had very little pain, the second wierd thing was my Doc gave me a tetanus shot. Dressed it with silvadine and prescribed me more.
This is what I do for burns
First degree-ignore them
Second degree-keep clean and dry, bandage and then ignore them.
Third degree-go see a Doc and get treatment(I'm not a total idiot)

I don't necessarily recommend this for everyone else(except for the third-yeah go and see a doc) but I'm like the opposite of a hypochondriac (my little sister is one she goes more times in one year than I have been in my entire life-including being born)

 

[Dublinia123]

Working with hot steel I have had all three.
Fortunately I have had only one third degree burn and it was really more of a 2.5 seriuos damage to skin, charring actually, but only minor damage to underlying tissue.

This is what I do for burns
First degree-ignore them
Second degree-keep clean and dry, bandage and then ignore them.
Third degree-go see a Doc and get treatment(I'm not a total idiot)

Wow lots of erm...interesting stuff

Ice...no ice...water....keep dry????

I'm now more confused

But my prize for best response goes to - Delbert

at least you raised a smile.....

When I read the last line of your sig ........it kinda put it all in context

 

[olpappy]

The Mayo Clinic link I provided above specifically says not to apply ice to 1st or 2nd degree burns:

Cool the burn. Hold the burned area under cool (not cold) running water for 10 or 15 minutes or until the pain subsides. If this is impractical, immerse the burn in cool water or cool it with cold compresses. Cooling the burn reduces swelling by conducting heat away from the skin. Don't put ice on the burn.
​

Comment?

Hmm, I don't know why they say that. Ice will conduct heat away, reduce inflammation and relieve pain more effectively than cool water. Maybe they are worried about an open wound becoming infected, or damage to the skin from becoming too cold. If you apply say, a can of frozen juice directly to the skin you can get a mini freeze burn. Ask me how I know this? So use a towel to insulate the ice pack from the skin.

What I'm saying here may not be the universally accepted medical opinion, but I'm saying it because I know it works. If you have a bad burn, cool water isn't going to make you feel a whole lot better, because it's just not cold enough.

How well does it work? To me, the results are almost miraculous. Ice kept my would-be 2nd degree burn limited to just a 1st degree burn. Once long ago I was using a propane torch to heat a knife tang and for some reason the nozzle suddenly popped off. Without thinking, I automatically reached down to pick it up. Well, I ran inside to get ice as fast as I could because I could almost feel an instant blister starting on my thumb. I kept ice on there until the pain level went down, which took about 6 hrs. I pretty much used every frozen item in the freezer during that time. But the next day it never developed a blister and the skin didn't peel.

Another time a family came to see me with their teenage daughter who had a really severe sunburn, she had gone on a boat and been on the ocean all day. Her whole torso was badly sunburned. I told them to use ice, the next day they came back and thanked me. If people come back to say thanks, that tells me it worked really well.

Creams, Tylenol, ibuprofen etc are not very effective, but ice is fantastic. Much more effective than any other thing you can do.

 

[ThEoRy]

Hmm, I don't know why they say that. Ice will conduct heat away, reduce inflammation and relieve pain more effectively than cool water. Maybe they are worried about an open wound becoming infected, or damage to the skin from becoming too cold. If you apply say, a can of frozen juice directly to the skin you can get a mini freeze burn. Ask me how I know this? So use a towel to insulate the ice pack from the skin.

What I'm saying here may not be the universally accepted medical opinion, but I'm saying it because I know it works. If you have a bad burn, cool water isn't going to make you feel a whole lot better, because it's just not cold enough.

How well does it work? To me, the results are almost miraculous. Ice kept my would-be 2nd degree burn limited to just a 1st degree burn. Once long ago I was using a propane torch to heat a knife tang and for some reason the nozzle suddenly popped off. Without thinking, I automatically reached down to pick it up. Well, I ran inside to get ice as fast as I could because I could almost feel an instant blister starting on my thumb. I kept ice on there until the pain level went down, which took about 6 hrs. I pretty much used every frozen item in the freezer during that time. But the next day it never developed a blister and the skin didn't peel.

Another time a family came to see me with their teenage daughter who had a really severe sunburn, she had gone on a boat and been on the ocean all day. Her whole torso was badly sunburned. I told them to use ice, the next day they came back and thanked me. If people come back to say thanks, that tells me it worked really well.

Creams, Tylenol, ibuprofen etc are not very effective, but ice is fantastic. Much more effective than any other thing you can do.

KEEP THE ICE OFF OF IT!

Ice/ice water is no more effective than a placebo and can severely damage the skin, cause mild frostbite and slow down the healing process. Ice/ice water can also drastically increase levels of pain. Your hand may feel numb while it's in there but once you take it out the pain levels skyrocket into the stratosphere. You'd be better off having done nothing at all than using ice. Cool water is the most effective at drawing the heat out of a burn. Trust me on this one Doc.

Ive been burned by flat top griddles, oven doors, oven racks, sheet pans, open flames, grease fires, fryer oil, saute pans, smoking hot sizzle plates, heat lamp coils, boiling water, steam machines, caramelized sugar, exploding butane cans, napalm like grizzle on the soft part of your wrist while you're holding a plate for the chef as he's taking his sweet ass time saucing and using his tweezers to strategically place a few delicate pieces of micro greens all the while that nasty fresh off the ripping hot 1200 degree grill piece of fatty grizzle is just sitting there on your milky supple wrist just digging it's way further into your flesh and you can't drop the plate cause if that $65 steak hits the deck your ass is grass so you just sit there and take that **** like a man etc etc infinity.

Take it from my own professional experience as the king of all burns, KEEP THE ICE OFF OF IT!

 

[Pensacola Tiger]

Sorry, ThEoRy, but my experience backs up olpappy's advice. Ice works, and works well.

 

[ThEoRy]

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Ice has caused me nothing but excessive pain and problems.

 

[Pensacola Tiger]

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Ice has caused me nothing but excessive pain and problems.

Perhaps it's the type of burn that determines how the ice treatment works. The last burn of any consequence I gave myself was when I grabbed the handle of a skillet that had just come out of a 450 degree oven. I immediately took a handful of ice and held it in my palm for about fifteen minutes. I really expected some blisters and pain, and a slow healing process as it was my palm that had taken the hit. But that never happened. I had a couple of small blisters and overall redness the next day, but to my surprise, not much pain. Healing seemed to be quicker. I think it probably had to do with quickly cooling the burn.

I guess I've been lucky enough not to have gotten a bad burn from oil/grease or sugar, yet.

 

[olpappy]

ThEoRy, it sounds like you have a lot more experience with getting burned than anyone I know. Can you explain in more detail what was your experience when you used ice, what kind of burn was it and what happened?

When I got burned, yes it would feel numb with ice on it and the pain would return when the ice was removed, but I attributed the pain to the burn injury, not the ice. The only reason I kept ice on it for 6 hrs was because that's how long it took to not have severe pain as soon as the ice was removed. Yes, you do have to use caution not to get the area too cold, you should remove the ice any time you feel the area becoming uncomfortably /excessively cold. But the pain will make you want to put the ice back soon enough, ha ha.

 

[Bryan G.]

We should clarify on who is getting burned at HOME ... And who is in a PRO environment getting burned. BIG BIG difference. At home water ice and what not may work where you are able to keep it there for a bit. In a Pro environment not the case. If I put water I actually use warm water as it adjusts my temp to the temp of my environment and around me and its easier to deal with the pain. I adhere to Theory's suggestion and AVOID all ice and water if I can help it. My go to is mustard. You can slather it on and it draws the heat to the surface and lessens pain. It will stay on your skin as well. When it drys and you feel the pain coming back, wipe and reapply. I don't know all the science behind it, but I have had LOTS of burns like Theory and very very little scars to show from it using this method. Milk is also a great neutralizer, but only for home use where you can keep it immersed for a bit.

Regards

Bryan

 

[ThEoRy]

ThEoRy, it sounds like you have a lot more experience with getting burned than anyone I know. Can you explain in more detail what was your experience when you used ice, what kind of burn was it and what happened?

When I got burned, yes it would feel numb with ice on it and the pain would return when the ice was removed, but I attributed the pain to the burn injury, not the ice. The only reason I kept ice on it for 6 hrs was because that's how long it took to not have severe pain as soon as the ice was removed. Yes, you do have to use caution not to get the area too cold, you should remove the ice any time you feel the area becoming uncomfortably /excessively cold. But the pain will make you want to put the ice back soon enough, ha ha.

Hahaha Probably just about average for any serious chef over a 15 year period in the business. Not to mention all the cuts, stabbings, slips, falls and avulsions. lol Things happen sometimes I guess. To be quite honest I'm actually very careful and major accidents are far and few between. Minor stuff happens all the time to just about everyone and you kind of just ignore/deal with it.

The very burn which made me give up using ice was just over 3 years ago. While on saute, in the middle of the weeds, I had a little too much oil in an old pan which warped over time and became almost bowl shaped. The pan was ridiculously smoking hot and I was as usual in a crazy mad rush on saute. I laid a dredged piece of chicken away from myself a little too fast and the combination of the excessive amount of ripping hot oil and the shape of the pan caused the oil to shoot up the side wall like a friggin skate board half pipe and splash down all across my right hand. The oil covered my hand all across my knuckles and down into the webbing in between my thumb and slightly into the other side on my palm, immediately blistering the whole thing.

We were almost home free but we had to clear the board. The sous chef at the time asked if I wanted him to jump in and finish it out but this ain't friggin double dutch. He would've just gotten buried. I knew where we were with the entrees and sides and what needed to be fired up and sent out. I was still in the zone. So I just cranked out that last excruciating 40 minutes all the while reaching into ovens and over open flames further aggravating it the whole time. It's like getting burned all over again each and every time.

With the board mostly clear and now manageable for someone to jump in I stepped off to find some relief. I went for the ice water bucket to soak my hand in until I could get to the emergency room. Sure it stopped the pain which was about a 5-6 on the 1-10 scale while it was numb, but you can only take that for so long so I had to take it out every so often. When I did though as feeling came back into my hand the pain shot up way beyond its normal level to about an 11 or so. Ridiculously painful even for me with an extremely high tolerance. After about 3 times I couldn't take it anymore so I just switched to a regular cold tap water bath. The pain came down to about a 3 and just comfortably stayed there with no spikes.

After service I finally got to the e-ward where they asked me stupid questions like, "Why didn't you just come here 40 minutes ago?" Anyway I explained the whole thing including the ice bath and resulting pain and that's when they told me to never use ice because of that reason and others, and that cold water was the most effective at cooling/relieving pain from a burn. This is the part where they left for a few seconds and I nabbed the silvadine.

So that's what happened. And I've sworn off the ice ever since. Thankfully I haven't had to use that advice since then but a few I know have and have also benefited from the healing powers of plain old cool tap water.

Hey, this post was kinda fun. Hey mods, can we create a "War Wound Stories" topic and move this post there?

 

[olpappy]

Well, that certainly sheds more light on things. A bucket of ice water will make your hand a lot colder than an ice pack, and the resulting cold will rapidly become uncomfortable, even painful. Anyone who has put their hand in in ice water will recall that it becomes uncomfortably cold very quickly. In this case a matter of too much of a good thing.

If your skin immediately blistered, then it was already a 2nd degree burn and there's not much to do for it except take pain meds and cover it with silvadene until the skin peels off. Also, working for another 40 mins means that you lost any chance to reduce the damage by immediately cooling the area.

Under ideal conditions, the best you could hope for would have been to immediately stop and let your co-worker take over, cool the area with an ice pack or cool water as you mentioned earlier. That would be the best chance to keep the blistered area to a minimum by stopping the heat damage and inflammation.

It does make a difference if it is 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th degree burn, obviously. If your skin has transformed into a huge fluid filled bubble, or if there's just raw meat there, it wouldn't make sense to put ice on it... cool water would be the only thing suitable. But if your skin is still intact, I like ice, cool water sure didn't make me feel any better when I've tried it.

 

[El Pescador]

All that really does is add a cooling sensation.

Silvadine sulfate however is a cream often used on severe burns ( and subsequently skin graft donor sites ) which helps deter infection and speeds the development of new tissue growth and helps reduce scarring.

We have a huge jug of this stuff at work. Don't ask me how I got a giant tub of doctor prescribed only cream without a prescription either.





OK I stole it. While getting treated 3 years ago for a severe burn during a mad house shift on saute (that I stuck it out for 3 hours till the end of the night before going to the emergency room) when they left the room for a second I nabbed the jug cause I knew we would need that ****. I even have a little jar at home as well. Has come in very handy many times since then.

I love this stuff...