#Schrödinger
Coticules
- Thread starter cotedupy
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Either way, I’d keep my cats before I kept my rocks
Your mother and I will tell you when you're older
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I plan to show your hand pictures to my wife, in the hopes of convincing her that a few cuts here and there on the hand, almost all of the time, are normal.
I can understand your enthusiasm for the speed and variance of coticules; they are fascinating stones, and if you get into a groove with them, and prioritize speed, I can see how they would seem the best of all possible worlds.
I enjoy using them for razors, but while I can get an excellent (but maybe less toothy than I like) edge on a knife with one, the feel of sharpening does not quite resonate with me. The stone seems slippery, numb, not really conveying what is happening. I know there are people who say that about the Shapton Glass stones, no feedback, while I think they have tons of feedback. But in this case, I really do experience a lack of feedback, an anechoic chamber for the hands.
Maybe the problem is that all of my coticules were touted for their fineness or razor-facing qualities. But when was the last time you saw someone bragging about the coarseness of the coticule they were selling?
Try lapping it with a coarse diamond stone. I find mine gets that slippery feeling after quite a bit of use.
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I have to try that. Thanks!
Haha, be my guest! (Gnarlier pictures available on request...)
The reason I like speed, particularly in natural stones for knife sharpening, is that I find that fast stones give more toothy and aggressive edges. In comparison to a similar 'grit' but slower stone which might tend more to polishing and refining an edge.
I never look at edges under a scope, so I can't prove that's true. Just my impressions from cutting stuff, thumbnail tests, &c. But the ideal for me are stones that are relatively fine but also very fast, and good cotis are kicking goals here.
Though an exception that sometimes proves that rule might be certain types of jnat. To make a generalisation; I'd consider most jnats to be fairly slow, especially low and mid git stones. But get a good one and you find a stone that is relatively slow, but still manages to leave nicely bitey edges. No idea why, as I say - it tries the rule. So perhaps it's all just confirmation bias on my part!
Certainly the harder and finer cotis will feel like this when used for knives, but softer ones can feel very nice. It's a bit of a shame that the fastest and coarsest of the veins readily available today is also the most expensive - Les Latneuses.
I'd definitely second Mike's thoughts about using with an atoma slurry. I do this with most cotis for knife sharpening. The two stones in my vids above are outliers in terms of how quickly they self slurry.
I'm the exact opposite here. I don't love my SG 1k because I don't feel it has much feedback and since I got the Chosera 800 I never touch it. My Coticules are super creamy and have nice feedback. I did specifically ask Rob at AC for faster ones for knives and not razors though. I got a medium bout (the pinky if you scroll up enough in this thread) that is harder and glassier than my others but also cuts S30V without issues so...idk. Weird, fun stones.
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I have a couple of small ones to try out. But which side do you mean? In razor-land, we ignore the yellow side and use the one with the pattern, but I'm not sure whether that's what you're recommending here.
Yep - the Les Lat coticule side (rather than the hard 'hybrid' side) is very fast, and probably low-mid grit in coticule terms.
Whereas the hybrid layer of Les Lat is more like an ark; probably a kind of chert, and pretty much 100% silica I believe.
When I started honing razors I was having issues getting a really good edge for a few months, but was using knife stones selected over the years for fast speed and maximum tooth.
When I bought harder, slower stones noted for better results on razors, the difference was dramatic. Like, I was erasing 4k scratches with a Shapton pro 1.5k, and it was taking its sweet time about it.
I scoped those edges during the process and your rule of thumb bore out visually as well as what you intuited. At least from my paltry synth subset.
And hard as **** to flatten. Less fun than an Ark. I've done ~10 Arks and that one les lat was plenty for one lifetime. Still isn't done actually. Laughs at a diamond plate. The only thing worse is a Spyderco F/UF.
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My Spyderco F/UF stones have a bit of a curve to them, as though a giant had grabbed the ends and bent them, just a little. Maybe 1mm of daylight in the middle, if I put a straight edge on the stone.
I decided my life would be better if I just ignored the problem. Better than a bend along the other axis, I suppose.
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You were right. The yellow side of my Les Lat felt like a knife stone -- discernible feedback, little bit of rasp, no slipperiness, except it was crazy fast. It made short work of a Maxamet pocket knife that needed a touch-up. Now onward to the kitchen knives.
I'd love a larger one, in a more orthodox shape, but it seems as though you can't even buy them with money. I wish AC hadn't started stamping "Selected Plus" on these stones, which made them seem way too must-have.
I can't believe I had something like this all along, and just thought of it as the useless yellow side of my nice razor hone.
I was hoping to find a bbw buried in the case, but it's just the filet on this one. Quite pretty, imo, and the slurry quickly turned black when I touched up (the parts that could reach) my just barely hardened opinel on it:
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after:
I'll just keep my eyes out for a bbw to pair it up with, or another oddball size natural that I think it'll pair nicely with, novaculite or otherwise.
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Ditto!
I have / have had quite a few cotis, but never a really proper knife-size Les Lat. Would love to find one someday.
I guess I’m about to learn a little something. Scored an older 6” cot/bbw combo on ebay. Maybe it will sharpen this ZDP-189 spyderco that ignores the other stones I’ve tried on it.
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I haven't tried my Spyderco ZDP-189 on a coticule (yet), but I had the same frustration sharpening it until I tried a diamond stone, vitrified or resin-bonded. Then it seemed really easy to sharpen. People say that ZDP-189 sharpens fine on the same stones I had trouble with (e.g. Shapton Glass), but I haven't been able to explain that. Maybe it's something different about Spyderco's heat treat.
Is that a coti? Is it that colour all the way down?!
[EDIT - Just zoomed in, and it is a coti isn't it. Some kind of weird transition layer between yellow and blue perhaps...? Very cool!]
'tis, and I believe the color goes through to the back, it was part of a bonded combi originally, so the back (bonded) side is too dark to verify.
I quickly stuck it with wax it on top of this box for now, it'll either get used up like this, or a partner for it will make itself known in some manner, and I'll change it over into a travel stone.
Oh yeah, that's gorgeous isn't it! Maybe the colour balance was showing funny on my computer for the previous pics, but that's definitely what they call a 'pink coticule'. And a serious find; people love the pink ones cos they're so pretty, and it looks pretty big? 7 or 8 x2?
I only have one small one that has particularly pink colouration and it's very good, as well as being very pretty.
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This made me laugh too:
I love Opinels as much as the next person, but yes - the steel is quite incredibly soft!
I wish! It's ~ 30mm x 125mm. I can sharpen a 270 gyuto or CCK on this size if I want, but I'm going to guess I'll choose to use it for <200mm knives in practice. It is (near) flat, so it will be a nice change of pace to sharpen on it instead of slowly working out the dishing on some of my other cotis, like a weirdo.
This reminds me of one I harvested from a Torrey Razor Paddle. It is like 30 X 180 X 5. I glued it to a Smith's tri hone base that I liberated the stones from to prevent it from breaking.
I'd need to chamfer the corners on that side of the Smith's block to get the ferrule clearance to where I'd want it, but overall it's the same. I do have a pretty interesting ark from a smith's with non-homogeneous translucency that I thought about joining up with it, but I like novaculites with oil and I like cotis with water, so I think I'd always be missing something with them paired up.
JustAnotherJoe
Hobbyist
They have coti-crystolon combis, too...
JustAnotherJoe
Hobbyist
I think Ardenes Coticule still sells bbw-crystolon combos, which seems like a really fun traveling stone!
That is an amazing edge! I've never seen a knife cut paper towel so easily! May I ask what your deburring method is and any tips you might have?
Benlong
Member
Is this a hybrid/hybrid les lat?
At least that's my best guess. Having no clue at all.
At least that's my best guess. Having no clue at all.
That is a very lovely combo with manganese spots. A prized feature. Those may (or may not) indicate faster speed and finer grit.
May be glued, the way the broken corner reveals the bottom layer. Hard to say.
I can’t say the vein, but Les Lat has a really distinct coffee and cream look. This is a not one.
http://www.tomonagura.com/Natural-Razor-Hones/belgian-coticules/les-latneuses.html
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