Damasteel Review - Open Discussion

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OK, So here is my review.

Bear in mind that I am only a home cook and as such I have waited as long as I can to write this to maximize my use of the knife before I make statements. My camera is with my family in Europe at the moment so I will need to rely on others to provide pictures. I have tried to stay out of the review thread for the last weeks so that I would be somewhat “untainted” by other reviewers opinions, some things may therefore be repetition.

First some stats:
Weight: 278 grams
Edge length:245 mm
Total length: 385 mm
Height at heel: 53 mm
Height at midpoint: 48mm
Spine thickness at heel:2.3 mm
Spine at midpoint: 2.1 mm
Spine 10mm behind tip: 0.8 mm
Balance point is right in front of the bolster

Handle: Some very nice woodwork went into this. Everything came together nicely and I imagine it is very hard to pick a spacer colour for a wood with such large colour differences. The space is white, which I think is as good a choice as any. The mosaic pins are gorgeous and I’m a bit surprised that I liked them since I prefer plain pins when the wood is multicoloured.
As for the shape I am not that big a fan of it. The handle is too tall and too narrow for me. It feels bigger than it needs to be and it’s too long. The only way to use all of it is to grip the knife like a hammer. The bolster is a bit "sharpish" in the front edge making it not so nice to grip using pinch. Given that I very rarely use western handles, I am not sure that one should place too much emphasis on my feelings on this topic. I’m sure it would be perfect for others.

The blade: This is my first experience with Damasteel (although it is from my home country, it is not widely used there either) and all I can say is WOW! It is very beautiful! Do not expect a traditional damascus pattern, but for someone who wants something unique this is absolutely a candidate. If Pierre was not halfway done with my own gyuto I would have changed my mind.
The knife came to me somewhat dull so I sharpened it going through 2k/5k/Kitayama 8k/JKS 10k but no stropping. You can feel it is stainless on the stones, but better than the average stainless (I mainly use carbon). The edge it takes is great (and it was fast getting there) and I did not have any problems deburring it. The shiny edge contrasts the blade sides very nicely. A negative is that the etching almost has Pierres logo hidden, you really have to look for it. I assume this could be remedied by making the logo deeper.
Even being a carbon fan, I would definitively put Damasteel on my shortlist of nice steels to have and Pierre has done a very nice job hammering it!
The profile is fairly tall, with a long flat area in the back half, I like this a lot, board contact is king. It came to me slightly oversharpened in the heel section so a flattening job might be in order. It was very slight though and not something that bothered me in use.
The tip is a tad high for my taste, I like a flatter profile in my gyutos, but I think for someone who sometimes rock it may be ideal.
The spine is almost flat for 200 mm making it very good for “board management”.

In use: This is a sturdy knife but it cuts very nicely. I actually thought it was a 270 in use, mainly because my only 270 reference is a Takeda 275 mm gyuto and that actually is quite a lot lighter. Things stick to the blade sides, pretty much as for every other polished knife I have, not worse but not better either. The tip is thin enough to not wedge most foods although most of the knife would benefit from being thinner behind the edge. As I did not want to ruin the etch job (duh!) I did not do this. I would be surprised if the steel could not take a thinning, I saw absolutely no tendencies for chipping. After a few days of use the weight of the knife stopped surprising me and it felt very natural to use it. With a good edge it goes through food easily just by the weight alone. I;d still prefer the balance point a bit further forward though..

Lastly I applaude Pierre (and the other makers) for taking the effort and doing a passaround. I believe that it is an excellent way of learning and I think making kitchen knives are more complicated than most makers believes (hopes?). Getting it absolutely right will take lots of practicing, thinking and feedback. I think this is a good way to go.

Bottom line: Pierre is a very talented knifemaker and although this specific knife is not perfect for me I am going to be very sad seeing it go tomorrow. F&F is excellent as to be expected from a full custom maker. The steel is great and the esthetics is brilliant.
 
Robin, thanks for the great review! This one I just finished up, and thought this would be an ok place to discuss it.

270mm sujihiki Heimskringla pattern, a variation on a traditional twist. HRC 61

Copper bolsters. Now on these I tipped the face back, to correct the square face I had on the passaround

Black and white vulcanized fiber spacers, mosaic pins, and desert ironwood scales

This blade is thin behind the edge, between 5 and 7 thousandths of an inch.

Ballance point is near the heel.

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Comments welcome!
 
Pierre, that is a very handsome knife!:thumbsup:
 
Man, you learn fast! All major issues adressed on the first knife after the passaround. I love the new bolster shape and the shape of the tip of the suji. Very elegant indeed. That also seems like th perfect handle for a suji as it leaves maximum knuckle clearance as well as having metal bolsters easier to keep sanitized. And it has become your signature handle. Great work as usual and great progress, Sir!

DarkHoeK
 
THis was a "revision", to address the square face mentioned in the reviews, I'm kinda looking for opinions or discussion on this...
 
PierreRodrigue said:
THis was a "revision", to address the square face mentioned in the reviews, I'm kinda looking for opinions or discussion on this...
Click to expand...

I'd actually want to handle both the older squared bolster and then the new angled one, but based on the knives I do have, I like the new bolster. It looks to be more "finger friendly" than your old style one.

As Harald (Darkhoek) has alluded to, it's not that much of a departure from the old style bolster that it changes what has become a design element of a Rodrigue knife. It's more an evolution than a revolution.

Rick
 
I agree! It is quite obviously the signature Rodrigue handle, but it's just been updated. Kind of like the grill of a BMW - We can all spot one without hesitation, in our rearview even though the grill has slightly changed over the years.
It's kind of a neat way to spot the classics from the new versions.
I think it's a great "evolution", as Rick put it.
 
Review of Pierre's Passaround Damasteel Gyuto, "The Grey Ghost"

First, I'm sorry for violating forum rules and good etiquette and not having any pictures. I tried to borrow a camera, but to no avail.

In my hands, the knife saw a week of use in my home kitchen, where I used it moderately to cut lots of summer produce. I compared it mostly to my Dave Martell handled Hiromoto AS Gyuto, which was once 240mm but--due to a snapped tip--is now about 230mm.

My general impressions of the knife were very favorable. Even after several users and lots of travel, the damasteel pattern remained arresting. After polishing and re-etching, I'd bet it will look phenomenal. As a quibble, there are some dark spots in the pattern that seem to throw off the general aesthetic a bit. Still, it's a viable technique for making beautiful kitchen cutlery, and I'm interested to see more examples from Pierre and other makers of what this steel can do.

The fit and finish are excellent. I found the blade a bit more flexible than I might prefer due to its distal taper, but that same geometry did result in a very thin and useful final 2 inches of blade at the tip. Unlike most reviewers, I found the handle quite comfortable to use, and liked that in a pinch grip, the trailing three fingers of my knife hand felt "full" because of the handle's height. In purely aesthetic terms, I like the direction Pierre has taken with the suji shown above by adding copper bolsters, and I think copper liners between the tang and handle scales would look great on this knife as well.

The knife is light and well-balanced, which allows knife to feel very much like an extension of the hand even when using the final few inches. I was very happy with the thickness at and behind the edge; it's not laser thin at the edge, but it stays thin well up the blade, making thin, precise cuts manageable.

Sharpening this knife was a joy. It came to me in pretty good shape, so I gave it a few passes at 1200 grit, and finished the edge on a Takenoko 8000 followed by a felt strop. The steel responded as well as any stainless knife I've used on the stones, and burr removal was very easy. The final edge was easily able to pierce a tomato with no downward pressure by pushing forward and using only the weight of the knife to make the cut. It didn't quite perform as well as Salty's Masamoto honyaki gyuto after TK59 had sharpened it--that edge was falling directly through ripe tomatoes with no pressure in any direction--but I chalk that up to my shortcomings as a sharpener.

So how did it cut? The extremely flat profile and ratio of blade height to edge length made this knife a monster at push-cutting large stacks of pineapple batonnet into cubes as well as speedily chiffonading basil. I liked the long, flat edge, but prefer knives with a more triangular overall geometry; in this knife, the edge and spine run nearly parallel until the spine drops dramatically to meet the tip. While I'm not sure this caused any limitations in performance, it did require an adjustment in feel, and over long use, I wonder if this wouldn't cause more fatigue than a design that allowed the wrist to point downward a bit more. When cutting shallots into very small brunoise, I found the tip servicable, but felt that my Hiromoto did a better job with cleaner cuts that required less force. Most impressively, the knife left very clean cuts in some ripe summer heirloom tomatoes. I was able to cut these into small cubes using a combination of vertical and horizontal cuts (like when dicing an onion) and the tomato--which had been halved and seeded but not skinned--held together with minimal loss of shape. I can only achieve this with my Hiromoto when the edge is at its sharpest.

In conclusion, this knife has a whole lot going for it. During its week in my kitchen, it performed extremely well, and my only complaints stem from the knife's status as a custom knife that was not built to my own design specifications. Since purchasers obviously can request their own preferences, this is not a real issue. I hope that Pierre continues to explore the possibilities that damasteel offers.

Pierre, thanks for your willingness to submit this knife for a passaround!
 
Just picked up this beauty from David last night. I'll put it's through it's paces and post a review in the next week or so.
 
Nope, I think the reviews/comments are just be directed to Pierre, rather than everybody. I know exactly where it is! :D
 
Sorry guys. I've been trying to work on the review but the day job keeps getting in the way. Anyway, I'd passed it on to Pensacola Tiger a bit ago, but he may have in turn sent it on by now. I've given my preliminary comments to Pierre already, I just need to work on the right phrasing for the full Review.
 
Ok I'm finally getting around to doing this! I managed to use this knife to feed about 5-6 thousand people, so that's a pretty solid workout. As always, I am stating my opinions as fact.

--------Aesthetics--------
When I opened the package, I was surprised by the bag it came in. PensacolaTiger did a good job tying the string, it was a cool looking little knot, though I don't know that it was done on purpose.

The knife is impressive to hold, it feels like a big knife. The edge bevel is super shiny. I was surprised to see that the wood is a bit less dramatic in person than in the photos, but the steel is extremely striking, it cannot be understated, for better or worse. I actually didn't like it visually as much as I initially did in the photo, because it is so overwhelming, neither did my boss(who is female and has more sensible taste in cosmetics). But my coworkers, all male, LOVED it. The one who has not liked any knife I've ever shown him, liked it because it had the “bling” he is looking for. It is certainly the most-noticed knife I've ever had at work.

The spacers are nice, though they seem to have shrunk a little already. The angled bolster is a really neat touch. The wood is smooth and the cracks were well filled in. The busy figuring and the damasteel kind of overloaded the look, but if someone's looking for a single knife to take up the one spot on the wall, this would be it.

---------The Edge------------
The edge I got was very very sharp and even. It worked for several days. I noticed there was a little microchipping, so I took it to the stones. This thing was crazy abrasion resistant. Took FOREVER to build up a small burr and several passes to deburr it completely. Stropping...I just committed to the idea that I'd be standing in my kitchen for a long time and stropped away. It did take forever. Worth it? Totally. Sharp as a straight razor, toothy enough to bite into tomatoes asap.

I started to work with it, and noticed a few more tiny chips on the edge, and predicted that it would continue to chip(as it did before) and soon disappoint me. What I was surprised to discover was that there were a few chips, then it held the edge at about 85% for the entire time I had it, no stropping or anything..I didn't even need to have sharpened it. The conclusion I came to was that this bevel had somehow gotten thinned and probably shouldn't be so steep. A blended microbevel might be better than the shallow convexity that it had. The steel was pretty hard to budge, but once it got to where it was happy, it stuck around forever.

I can't say that I loved working with it(lol), but I did like the way the damasteel performed. Several days after sharpening it, without any touchups in the meantime, I cut up 45 quarts of white onions without a single tear, and they were still fresh-looking and opaque for 10 days, when the ones I set aside started smelling a little weird and I had to toss them. I've never had onions last so long at work, that is a great sign for this steel.

---------Design--------------
The balance, though indeed more handle-heavy than I like, was in exactly the right place to please the crowd. It is RIGHT in front of the bolster. I noticed that this knife performed a lot better if handled with a stiffer wrist than I am used to using. I offered it to my coworker who holds knives properly, but with an attitude like one would hold the neck of a chicken they were slaughtering, as if it might run off somehow. He loved the balance of it, as I thought. This knife just needs to be handled with mas cajones.

The handle was a solid western design with no flaws to speak of. Comfortable and secure. A win!

The blade had MAJOR stickage issues. I mean, it felt 5 times duller than it was on stuff like potatoes and cantaloupes. Beef, chicken, a breeze. But this thing could split a 1 lb russet and then just pick the whole thing up. It made me a little nervous getting potatoes off of it, since the edge is so sharp and the food is stuck so hard. I don't know if it was the texture of the damasteeel, or the flat grind, but it was the one thing I really didn't like about it.

The grind.
Was.
Perfect.
Dead flat. I'm seriously impressed by the skill level Mr. Rodrigue showed grinding this huge blade so competently, it makes it look easy. I spent a lot of time just holding it up to a light source and wiggling it back and forth with one eye closed.

The profile was just how I like em. I felt like sending Mr. Rodrigue and Lefty a letter saying “Your knife is not coming home. It loves you, but isn't ~in~ love with you. It's found someone else and is moving on. I hope you understand.” The balance made tip work a little bit less robust, but this knife is a bit large for cutting grapes in half, so that's not a big draw.

-----------Overall-----------

This knife didn't scream “kitchen” to me, but you can call me Susan if it didn't scream “Quality”. I doubt I'll be able to forget about the workmanship displayed here, and really appreciate the chance work with it for a busy week. About all it needs improving on is food stickage. Thanks to Lefty and Mr. Rodrigue for this passaround!
 
Forgot to add, I didn't mind the squared bolster at all. The beveling on the edges was enough that I don't notice. But, being a pro cook, I don't often notice anything past the heel.
 
johndoughy said:
...As always, I am stating my opinions as fact.
Click to expand...
Haha! Good one. Nice review, btw.

johndoughy said:
...The edge I got was very very sharp and even. It worked for several days. I noticed there was a little microchipping, so I took it to the stones. This thing was crazy abrasion resistant. Took FOREVER to build up a small burr and several passes to deburr it completely. Stropping...I just committed to the idea that I'd be standing in my kitchen for a long time and stropped away. It did take forever...
Click to expand...
Exactly what was your sharpening routine? Where did you spend the most time? I'm curious because I've been sharpening some very wear-resistant blades recently and I haven't seemed to have any problems developing burrs but oftentimes they don't really seem to want to come off. I'm also curious to know how much the toothiness of the edge is due to the characteristics of the steel and how much was your sharpening job.
 
Shapton Pros, up to 5k(that one I really don't like), then homemade strops.

It's not like it took half an hour to get a burr going, it just wasn't instantaneous like I am used to--the advantage is that it makes building an even burr easier. But deburring it...well, I don't have any deburring felt, so I've been using rubber and cork, and I cleaned the blade a few times before deburring passes, because I was convinced there had to be swarf on the edge--nope, it just doesn't deburr in one pass. Not sure what that is about. Combine that with the somewhat heavy handle and you've got a knife that feels like foreeeever to sharpen. It does perform pretty dang well for quite a while though, so at least you won't be doing it every weekend.

Oh yeah, I spent the most time on the 5k stone, but that's because I have to keep a close eye on what I'm doing since sharpening on that stone is like playing patty-cake with Helen Keller.
 
No, I didn't take it below 2k. I don't like to put the passarounds on the 1k, for safety's sake. I'm paranoid with these things. The chips I'm talking about are the kind you can only see when you hold it up and look really close, so it's not like I had to really hog off some steel. I love my Shapton 2k, I learned to sharpen on it and still love the way it sounds.
 
Eamon, thanks for the great review! Sorry this one was a bugger on the stones. The flat ground blade faces, combines with the damascus pattern, are likely a culprit of the sticking, recent work has taken advantage of convexing of the face. The old learning curve as it were. I beleive the edge was taken steeper by an earlier user in the passaround, as it was felt the steel might benifit from a steeper bevel. This would likely account for the microchipping. All in all, do you feel the Damasteel has a place in a harduse kitchen?

I spit my coffee out again, Hellen Keller playing patty - cake! lol :lol2:
 
I think it did well holding up to poly boards and horrendous amounts of food. This thing was literally cutting actively probably 5-6 hours a day for 7 workdays. It degraded pretty far from where it was off the stones, but it held it's ground at about 85% like a champ. I kept expecting it to start sucking at some point, but it kept on ticking. It didn't scream through food for days, but it was certainly likeable.

Side note, it made very little sound on my stones. I know this has more to do with the dimensions of the blade and the steel it's made of, but what's up with that? It was very quiet.

Glad to hear that convexing the faces has helped with food stickage. Does it really make that big of a difference?
 
Thanks for the review. As always, I enjoyed reading it quite a bit. Thanks again for taking part, and just as importantly, letting us know how it all went down.
It's crazy what convexing the grind of a knife can do in terms of food release. In fact, Pierre, once this is back in your hands, I bet it could be taken to the grinder and some convexivity could be added fairly easily.
 
tk59 said:
You're kidding, right?
Click to expand...

Well, I know how it works and why, but I didn't know it would be a total game-changer. Then again, I've never used a knife that sticks this hard, and did a before and after with it.
 
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