De-Burring 101...again :)

[Seb]

Maybe the vinegar is to put a bit of a patina on the edge itself and keep it from degrading/rusting. Just a guess.

That could be one reason. But he mentioned that his main knife is a Glestain 300mm gyuto.

 

[slowtyper]

Using a leather hone/strop can be easy if you follow a couple of simple rules.


1. Approach the hone in the correct manner.

When you go to lay the knife down on the hone you should lay the knife down flat on it's side (edge away from you). Never approach the hone edge first as you will likely cut into the leather.


2. Find the angle.

Find the correct angle by simultaneously raising the spine and pushing the knife forward until the edge bites (not cuts) the leather. This is the exact angle of the bevel.

Over time try experimenting with the angle that you hone with. Try using the exact angle, then a slightly more acute (spine lower to the hone), and then a slightly more obtuse angle (spine farther away from the hone). I personally find that I often get a better edge by slightly raising the spine by about 1 deg from exact.


3. Use appropriate pressure.

For years I told people to use light pressure when stropping on leather. This was good advice since most leather is soft (often a lot softer than it appears) and easy to conform and wrap around a knife's edge serving to dub or roll the edge. If you can obtain leather that is very thin and stiff it will offer little to no give even under heavy downward pressure. This is advantageous to burr removal on high hardness blades like Japanese knives as you can now also use pressure to add to the draw that the leather provides to pull the loose burrs off of the edge.


4. Do not whip the blade at the end of the stroke!

This has to be the #1 mistake of the new stropper - whipping the knife off of the hone at the end of the stroke and rounding the edge over.

The correct technique would be to pull back and STOP at the end of the stroke - then lower the spine down to the hone (thus raising the edge off of the hone) - and then lift the knife off of the hone and continue back to the opposite end for the next stroke.


6. Take your time.

This is the #2 big mistake made when starting out - rushing.

You should take your time and ensure control. If this means doing the edge in little sections (versus a real impressive sweeping motion) then do so. It's almost a dead certainty that what you do at this stage of the game will either enhance or detract from what you did while on the stones. Taking your time will help achieve good results.

Thanks, I have read this from you before and this is how I strop (well, a bit slopily as I get impatient).

But as I understood it, I use this technique to polish the edge that I just sharpened. Say I am sharpening a single bevel knife and I create a burr along the backside. Would the same technique be enough to pull the burrs out or am I stropping on the back of the knife to pull the burr off? Or is the light uraoshi sharpening enough for single bevel knifes?

 

[Dave Martell]

Thanks, I have read this from you before and this is how I strop (well, a bit slopily as I get impatient).

But as I understood it, I use this technique to polish the edge that I just sharpened. Say I am sharpening a single bevel knife and I create a burr along the backside. Would the same technique be enough to pull the burrs out or am I stropping on the back of the knife to pull the burr off? Or is the light uraoshi sharpening enough for single bevel knifes?

Now that's altogether different. Stropping sing;e bevels to remove burrs can be problematic because most leather gives just enough to round over the back side bevel. If you're looking to use leather on a single bevel it's best to only use it on the front side alternating between a polishing stone for the flat back. It's very slow. Another method is to use felt which allows for extra pressure and not edge rolling. The other way is to just ignore the burr and wire edge on these knives like most everybody does.

 

[bieniek]

huh?:eek2:

 

[Eamon Burke]

The other way is to just ignore the burr and wire edge on these knives like most everybody does.

Yeah, when I was learning from my coworkers, the generally accepted wisdom was to just sharpen often. They don't know how their edges could improve with the concept of working/removing a wire edge, so they just like the grabbiness of a wire edge, and sharpen their knives twice a week, or get used to them being dull. Heck, one guy used a Suisin that was already thin, and then he sharpened it by laying it totally flat on a 320 grit stone, and pushing so hard his fingers turned white. Wire edge, much?

 

[BertMor]

So, I sharpened a couple of knives today, and I did something a little different. What gave me the idea was something Dave said about 3 years ago. He said he experimented and sharpened/ honed all the way to .25 diamond. Then he went back to 1000 grit and started all over again. He felt that his edges were the best he had ever done.

So today I modified it a bit. I raised a burr on 1000 grit, ran it through cork 3 or 4 times, stropped on felt, and went back to the stone and stropped a la Carter. Repeated on 5k ands 8k Kitayama. After stropping on the Kitayama, I did a second round on the cork and felt, then re sharpened on the Kitayama, but with no mud. Thats how I do it with str8t's and thats what Kousuke Iwasaki wrote in his 1960's pamplet.

OK nothing earth shatteringly new. However I changed up the angle on the felt when stropping. I know Dave says that you try to stay just a hair obtuse of the honed angle, but I was stropping around 30*. I couldn't seem to get rid of the burr no matter how many laps I did on felt or cork when doing it the old way. Stropping on the stone just folds it back and forth.

So, what say ye? Not really different from what Jon does when putting on a micro bevel.

Second bit, anyone use phone book paper to check their edges? My wife makes fun of me (and gets mighty p*ssed) because there are little bits of phone book all over the place after I sharpen. But if you can push cut out an inch or two with phone paper, and it is a whisper soft sound as it cuts, well all is right with the world. Your edges be sharp enough for a moile!

Third bit, now tak a piece of that phone book paper you oh so daintily whacked off and place it on something flat, oh like lets say, a gorgeous Boardsmith board! With no pressure slice the paper a la Salty's pressureless tomato demonstration. If it slices that itty bitty piece of paper, scr*w the moilie, you have a light sabre!

 

[bieniek]

Stropping on the stone just folds it back and forth.

Did you ever had a situation when when stropping on stone you would literally see burr falling off the edge?
Now Im not saying its nor good or bad but it definitely is possible.

 

[BertMor]

Nah, my eyesight ain't all that good!

 

[tk59]

Did you ever had a situation when when stropping on stone you would literally see burr falling off the edge?
Now Im not saying its nor good or bad but it definitely is possible.

Generally, yes. I'll start on a 400 or 500 and get a burr which won't completely fall off and you can see some of it on there. Then I'll switch to a 1k stone and generally lose the burr within a few strokes. If I check every few strokes on these stones, I can see the burr come off a little bit every stroke. How many strokes, etc. depends on the steel and how careful I am maintaining my angle in the first place.

 

[Seb]

Yes, and sometimes I can also hear it.

 

[bieniek]

You mean it cracking in the smooth stroke sound? Yup

But i manage it only using 1k, i never go lower on most knives.

 

[InSearchOfTheWireEdg]

Dave, I just browsed this forum. Thank you for the explanation of the difference between the burr and the elusive wire edge. I wish you would write a book on knife sharpening.

 

[Benuser]

Welcome!

 

[chinacats]

Greetings insearchofthewireedg! Don't think Dave has a book, but he does have a set of dvd's!

 

[Dave Martell]

Dave, I just browsed this forum. Thank you for the explanation of the difference between the burr and the elusive wire edge. I wish you would write a book on knife sharpening.

Thanks for the kind words & welcome to KKF