First Look Masamoto AEB-L Wa-Gyuto 240mm

[chefwatson]

it is real easy to go to global.rakuten.com and on the home page search masamoto. 2 pages of their knives come up. You can tell by price if it is a KS, KK and so on. Click the knife you are interested in and look for the model number. The stainless is sw-3124 for the 240 and so on. You can cross-reference model numbers with JCK can find exactly what you are looking for. There is nothing difficult about using their site.

 

[labor of love]

korin mari told me the aeb-l masamoto is hardened to hrc 60 for those who are curious.

 

[Miles]

Rockwell is definitely not the be all end all for performance. Steel, heat treat, grind, etc all play into it. It does give some clue, but if the heat treat is off and it's over or under hardened, the performance is going to suffer. One of my chef buddies had a Yusuke which he liked for the geometry and feel, but he really felt the slightly lower rockwell compromised the edge holding and performance. He's since picked up a newer one and said it's much improved. One side note, IIRC on the Suisin IH, both Korin and JCK (when they carried them) clocked it at 61-62. It's markedly harder than what we've been discussing here.

 

[Chefdog]

Thanks for the info guys.

 

[marc4pt0]

NoChop,
Thanks for the info. Pretty tempting at that price.

Chef Watson,
Don't think there was any mention of the specific site being hard to use. You're correct in how easy it is to navigate though. Earlier this morning when I was looking for this knife my little tablet was having a difficult time opening the pages of this site.

 

[Marko Tsourkan]

If you look at the bevel on the AEB-L at the tip, it is larger than the bevel as it extends to the heel. Would you call this a sharpening mistake?

Bevel is indication of thickness, so the thinner the bevel, the thinner the edge. Looks pretty thick tip to me.

 

[JBroida]

actually, this is often a function of the way people sharpen in japan... the bevels at the tip tend to be a bit wider due to the way they adjust for the tip sharpening... i'm not saying if the tip is thick or not, but i do know that this kind of sharpening can commonly be seen on knives coming from japan

 

[Timthebeaver]

Rockwell is definitely not the be all end all for performance. Steel, heat treat, grind, etc all play into it. It does give some clue, but if the heat treat is off and it's over or under hardened, the performance is going to suffer. One of my chef buddies had a Yusuke which he liked for the geometry and feel, but he really felt the slightly lower rockwell compromised the edge holding and performance. He's since picked up a newer one and said it's much improved. One side note, IIRC on the Suisin IH, both Korin and JCK (when they carried them) clocked it at 61-62. It's markedly harder than what we've been discussing here.

And JKI list it at 60-61. This is why I pay little attention to numbers.

My favourite gyuto is a Yoshikane SKD, which is listed just about everywhere at 64, sometimes even 65. I'd bet my bollocks to a barn dance that mine isn't, and I remember a post by Will Catcheside where he thought an SLD (also listed as 64) sujihiki was no more than 60, and I'd certainly tend to believe him on such matters.

Bottom line is I couldn't give a monkey's about the HRC, as it's a great knife.

 

[Miles]

And JKI list it at 60-61. This is why I pay little attention to numbers.

My favourite gyuto is a Yoshikane SKD, which is listed just about everywhere at 64, sometimes even 65. I'd bet my bollocks to a barn dance that mine isn't, and I remember a post by Will Catcheside where he thought an SLD (also listed as 64) sujihiki was no more than 60, and I'd certainly tend to believe him on such matters.

Bottom line is I couldn't give a monkey's about the HRC, as it's a great knife.

LOL. I have a Yoshi SKD, as well. I don't know what the HRC is either. I always thought that number sounded suspiciously high, too. Regardless, it just gets it done.

As far as the Suisin IH line goes, I trust that Jon has a good bead on it. If he says it's 60-61 and everyone else says 61-62, I'd split the difference and guess it's probably right in the middle at 61 plus or minus. Splitting hairs here, really. As far as I'm concerned, reported HRC is secondary to actual performance, and really only a clue to possible performance. I've had three knives from the Suisin IH line. They all delivered and keep on delivering. They're definitely amongst my favorites.

As you so succinctly put it, bottom line is if it's a great knife...

 

[cclin]

.......Yoshikane SKD, which is listed just about everywhere at 64, sometimes even 65. I'd bet my bollocks to a barn dance that mine isn't, and I remember a post by Will Catcheside where he thought an SLD (also listed as 64) sujihiki was no more than 60, and I'd certainly tend to believe him on such matters.

LOL. I have a Yoshi SKD, as well. I don't know what the HRC is either. I always thought that number sounded suspiciously high, too.....

"Rockwell hardness test operation conditions that may influence the test result. These conditions include test specimens that are below the minimum thickness for the depth of indentation; a test impression that falls too close to the edge. Sheet metal can be too thin and too soft for testing on a particular Rockwell scale without exceeding minimum thickness requirements and potentially indenting the test anvil. In this case a diamond anvil can be used to provide a consistent influence of the result."
The most accurate way of testing is on even thickness steel specimen, I doubt you can get accuracy testing results on a finished product/knife. WillC please chime in, correct me if I'm wrong!!
many knife retailers tend to list highest HRC# of steel for marketing!! for example, yoshikane SLD or SKD11 HRC 62~64 & SKD12 HRC 61~62 , many retailer just list "Steel: SKD semi-stainless HRC 64"!!

 

[labor of love]

:threadjacked:
back to the masamoto. anybody know if its monosteel or not?

 

[Timthebeaver]

From the pics it certainly appears that it is zen-ko/monosteel.

 

[mhlee]

It's the same answer I give to everyone. Take a ruler. Hold it up against one side of the blade. It will sit FLUSH against the ruler indicating that the blade face is flat. Then put the ruler against the other side of the blade and observe how the convexity curves away from the straight ruler edge. This is an obvious asymmetric grind. Only the eye is fooled due to the thinness of the blade. But the ruler will reveal the asymmetry.

I did not say it was not convexed; I said it was slightly convex ground on the right side. I also did not say it was completely flat. I said it's closer to flat. I also said I would not go so far to say that my KS is clearly asymmetrically ground.

Your response and analysis assumes a number of things. First, a grind is not consistent from tip to heel. So, you may see convexity somewhere along the face of the blade, but at certain places, there may be more convexity or less convexity, and the grind may be higher along the face of the blade at the heel versus the tip. Second, how you place the ruler along the face of the blade matters. Are you placing it at the spine or the flattest area of the face of the blade? Third, you assume that my KS is the same as yours.

I've done your ruler test at the heel, at the middle of the blade and the tip of the blade; I actually used both a hand held level and ruler, with the level and ruler flush with the spine and the flattest portion of the face of the blade on both sides of the blade. On MY KS, there is a little convexity on the right side of the face of the blade; the convexity at the heel only goes from the edge to about 1.7 centimeters up from the edge.

The left side is close to flat ground, but not quite flat. It is definitely not as clearly asymmetrically ground in my experience as other knives I own or have used, e.g., the CarboNext which has a very asymmetric grind, or as convexed as others, e.g., my Gesshin Ginga wa-gyuto has a more pronounced convex grind. In fact, at the heel, about 1.7 cm from the edge, the grind goes from flat to a slight taper on both sides of the knife to the edge. The grind is a little more noticeable on the right side, but only slightly.

So, next time, before you make conclusions about my knife, you'll probably want to limit your opinions to yours. Because some of your assumptions about my knife are wrong.

 

[brainsausage]

If you look at the bevel on the AEB-L at the tip, it is larger than the bevel as it extends to the heel. Would you call this a sharpening mistake?

I noticed this(after it was brought to my attention by another member) on a knife in the B/S/T a little while back. I thought it was done by the owner.

 

[cclin]

If you look at the bevel on the AEB-L at the tip, it is larger than the bevel as it extends to the heel. Would you call this a sharpening mistake?

I think so! I don't know about masamoto SW line(aeb-l). however, my first KS gyuto had similar uneven bevel near the tip...so,I returned the knife! then, I brought my 2ND KS gyuto few months ago which came with perfect even bevel.