Flat spot ratio on santoku

[Asteger]

Just wondering if anyone out there could take a look at their santoku - esp if yours is new or if you're confident that you've preserved its original profile. What proportion of the blade from the heel comprises the flat spot? .. 2/5? .. 1/2? .. 3/5?

I've just received a Heiji santoku through a trade. It's in good condition, but I could tell from the photo that the edge profile had been rounded a bit towards the heel mostly eliminating a real flat stretch. Maybe I can get only about 2-3cm at one point away from the heel currently. Just got it, as said it's not too bad and I intended to fix it up, so now's time.

I only have experience with one other santoku, so am not experienced with them. The bit on the other one (not a Heiji) runs almost halfway along the edge from the heel. Of course, there will be variations depending on maker, but maybe not so much compared with gyuto for eg, and I wonder if there could be a higher ratio for 180mm as opposed to 165mm santoku, too. (The newly received Heiji is 180mm.)

Just hoping a couple of you or so would do a quick check and post a ratio here if your santoku is in good shape. Heiji santoku owners are particularly welcome. Thanks.

Can't guarantee that the table is completely flat, but here's a shot of what I have now:

 

[Asteger]

... Okay, the knife fiend is nothing if not impatient. Almost 1.5 hours since my first post and a few views, but no responses. Maybe I should just blame the unpopular term 'santoku'? Anyway (with my daughter napping) I ceased the opportunity to start. Checked a few santoku shots on the net first for inspiration. Not sure if I'm headed in the original Heiji direction or other...

Sorry again, as I'm almost certain the table isn't 100% level. Gives a rough idea, though...

 

[icanhaschzbrgr]

The only santoku I have at the moment is 165mm Wakui. Belly seems to be similar to yours.

that's my "vacations knife" that gets usage only outside of home. Never felt any inconvenience due to belly.

 

[Asteger]

The only santoku I have at the moment is 165mm Wakui. Belly seems to be similar to yours.

Thanks, but disagree! Flat bit on yours seems to extend 40-50% of the way, then gradual belly. Mine looks a lot flatter now, but appearances are deceptive as a lot has to be done near the heel - yours looks fine - which in my case actually means lowering the rest of it all together. What I like on yours and which I'm not sure was originally part of the Heiji, but what I might aim for, is to get it so that when the flat area is flat on the chopping surface, the handle is a bit elevated, not parallel to the board. A good profile for me, though as my wife's quite a bit shorter maybe not for her? (Hoping she'll use this one, and not rust my Kato next time.)

... food break

 

[MAS4T0]

... Okay, the knife fiend is nothing if not impatient. Almost 1.5 hours since my first post and a few views, but no responses. Maybe I should just blame the unpopular term 'santoku'?

Yeah, it's because you used the "S" word in the title. :justkidding:

 

[Asteger]

Yeah, it's because you used the "S" word in the title. :justkidding:

Drats! Well, so you're saying I should maybe surrender and go for the loathsome 'S'-word (Sh!g@-something) instead? Has nothing to do with the thread, but will surely get thousands of search hits, countless views, and people checking their emails constantly for the latest mailing-list KU petty release!... Okay, here: **Shigefusa!!**. Apologies to plain old s-s̶a̶n̶t̶o̶k̶u despite how respectible you are.

 

[panda]

a lot of santokus actually have a gradual curve along most of the blade, it's designed that way to gain extra usable length and because most people use a rocking motion. but try it out first, a too flat profile will dig into the cutting board instead of gliding through and you have to alter your action quite a bit to adjust. funny enough, wusthof classic santoku is very flat and it's the knife i used for first 4 years of my career before i got into knives.

 

[Asteger]

Thanks, P. I think maybe I shouldn't be going for any lengthy flat spot. Maybe max 1/3 from the heel or 2/5? I'd like to get the one I have to lose the 1mm or so upward curve at the heel it currently has, and then basically be gradual from there. Of course that means losing at least 1mm from most of the rest of the edge too.

Anyway, this one looks good to me and will please the Shig-o-maniacs:

 

[panda]

i think a flat spot in the middle is more useful in a santoku. the maboroshi looks good in that sense

try only removing .5mm of the curve at the heel. a short blade with a slight heel up curve actually makes sense as you can sweep forward and it is natural for your hand to tilt up in the process. give it a shot, you might be pleasantly surprised.

i love shig steel, don't love the cladding or profile(gyuto).

 

[Lucretia]

About 35-40%. (Ryusen)

 

[lancep]

I have a brand new 180 Heiji, but it is at my workshop where I was going to make a leather saya/sheath for it. I'll snap a pic and measure it when I get a chance, but may be a few days at least. Don't think I can get over there til Wednesday.

 

[Asteger]

Thank very much, Lucretia - much like the (Kiya) santoku I already have with about the same heel-middle flat spot, so this has been my model.

P, yes - that's pretty much where I have it now, so perhaps should stop. I think at least a tiny curve up at the heel is good, or a Shigehiro-style slight rounding, to protect against chips, etc.

I have a brand new 180 Heiji, but it is at my workshop where I was going to make a leather saya/sheath for it. I'll snap a pic and measure it when I get a chance, but may be a few days at least. Don't think I can get over there til Wednesday.

That would be great. Thanks.

 

[lancep]

Okay, here are some photos of a new 180 Heiji. I tried to show how the blade touches the board at different angles. When I did this, I would say the blade appears to have say a 1 - 1.5 inch 'flat' spot. However, the curve seems to be pretty continuous, so I guess you can reach your own conclusions.

Hope this helps.

 

[osakajoe]

The only santoku I have at the moment is 165mm Wakui. Belly seems to be similar to yours.

that's my "vacations knife" that gets usage only outside of home. Never felt any inconvenience due to belly.

Your vacation knife is out of shape if that's a santoku. Looks like a deba in its shape. Needs some heavy work if you want it to have a profile of a santoku. See the pictures others have posted.

 

[icanhaschzbrgr]

Your vacation knife is out of shape if that's a santoku. Looks like a deba in its shape. Needs some heavy work if you want it to have a profile of a santoku. See the pictures others have posted.

It used to have "classic" santoku profile, but I much more prefer it's current modified state. The edge is mostly the same except for the shortened tip that was broken once or twice. Some beef from spine was removed intentionally.

 

[daveb]

Used to have a Shig Santoku - a girlie knife for sure - but what a girl!

 

[Badgertooth]

A little late to this party, but was searching on Heiji as a search term. I think your assertion that the flat spot ratio increases with blade length makes sense. 210mm with plenty of flat

 

[Badgertooth]

Im still not 100% sure I'd call this a Santoku though

 

[panda]

that looks like a flat gyuto, sweet profile! what and where did you get it?

 

[DanHumphrey]

Santokus seem to have fairly wide-ranging profiles, from almost all-flat to nearly a gyuto.

 

[Asteger]

Okay, here are some photos of a new 180 Heiji.

lancep - forgot to say, thanks for the photos The profile on the edge is rounder than I'd expect, but I can no longer compare as I've fixed up the one I have - took a few hours, yes - and I think it's flatter now, but working pretty well.

badgertooth - that profile looks like my own 210 Heiji

danhumphrey - Sure, lots of profiles. For sort of a santoku-esque gyuto, you could also go for Watanabe or Toyama

 

[Badgertooth]

that looks like a flat gyuto, sweet profile! what and where did you get it?

Hinoura ajikataya, the migaki version from Japan Woodworker. Whatever it is, I like it a lot.

 

[mc2442]

... Okay, the knife fiend is nothing if not impatient. Almost 1.5 hours since my first post and a few views, but no responses. Maybe I should just blame the unpopular term 'santoku'? Anyway (with my daughter napping) I ceased the opportunity to start. Checked a few santoku shots on the net first for inspiration. Not sure if I'm headed in the original Heiji direction or other...

Sorry again, as I'm almost certain the table isn't 100% level. Gives a rough idea, though...

I love the impatient comment as it was posted at 2:47 a.m. my time (yes, I realize it was a prior day), so 5:47 ET. A lot of the posters are from the US so a wee bit early :knife: