For the money or for the passion?

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Marko Tsourkan said:
I think he is asking the following. How can makers who are relatively new to kitchen knife scene can be so sure of their work (profile, geometry, etc), while it takes many years of practice and professional feedback to gain a knowledge to make a knife that can be claimed good? He uses Shigefusa example, who has been a highly praised knife maker for several decades, and yet his approach to the craft is very humble.
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Correct

What I like to say is that to many makers and hobby makers pop up like mushrooms these days. Dave have started (and he is someone I actually believe can make some really great knives in time), Mark (his sworn enemy is making a lot of knives), a lot of forum users and not at least a lot of bladesmiths are diving into kitchenknives.

But where is the marked?

I dont live in the US, but I have to keep my self updated through KKF and KF. What Ive noticed is that everybody is cheering on everybody. There is this hype about everybody. But is there enough marked for the buyers or will this tsunami of socalled makers ruin the marked for the few really good ones?


And: I want a great knife smith to make money! I respect their skills and proffesion and I have never tried to bargin a maker at all. Ive asked for the price and then ordered, even if a knife was insane pricy.

But in this jungle of makers its damn hard for a person who wants the best of the best, and end up getting a lada dressed like a ferrari.
 
I don't think you have to worry that "so-called" makers will ruin it for those who truly pursue perfection in their craft . Like any other handmade craft , those who do poor and shody work with inferior materials and skills , will not last . They will be found out quickly , as performance is paramount .
It might not be hard to sell 1 sub-par knife , but you'll never sell another . Not to the Kitchen knife crowd .​
I don't know about other makers , but I only make 10-20 knives a year - if that .​
When I do Knife Shows , I maybe see 1 kitchen knife maker . I don't think the Market is in for a glut of kitchen knives . I think the Market will bear what a good maker builds to his best ability .​
So why not cheer each other on .. ? Some of the makers getting into this are World Class Makers ..​
I think you're all in for a treat if you ask me ....​
 
Bill T said:
I don't think you have to worry that "so-called" makers will ruin it for those who truly pursue perfection in their craft . Like any other handmade craft , those who do poor and shody work with inferior materials and skills , will not last . They will be found out quickly , as performance is paramount .
It might not be hard to sell 1 sub-par knife , but you'll never sell another . Not to the Kitchen knife crowd .​
I don't know about other makers , but I only make 10-20 knives a year - if that .​
When I do Knife Shows , I maybe see 1 kitchen knife maker . I don't think the Market is in for a glut of kitchen knives . I think the Market will bear what a good maker builds to his best ability .​
So why not cheer each other on .. ? Some of the makers getting into this are World Class Makers ..​
I think you're all in for a treat if you ask me ....​
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Bill, I think your post is spot-on. While it may seem that a lot of knife makers are now trying their hand at kitchen knives, the real number is probably pretty low. And if you do not 'get it right' within the first few knives, chances are the market will slam the door on you. Well, at least the market of serious knife nuts who actually use the knives vs putting them out on display. I suppose there will always be a niche market for poorly-made but pretty-to-look-at knives by the same people who pay $2k for a handbag.

This BBS is a great place for makers who want to break into kitchen knives to come and learn what the real knife users think is important. And many of the members here passed on similar advice previously through KF. The knife makers who really care about making great kitchen knives soak up the info, filter it a bit, and can then turn out pretty decent initial tries. Then with some more feedback, the next few get just that much better.

I have not been around these forums all that long, but I did see some of Pierre's very early efforts, and he got off to a great start. Good enough that I wanted some of his knives for myself. And the knives he's made since then appear to have been refined a bit more based on feedback, and only continue to get better. And Delbert Ealy has really hit the ground running! (at least with gyutos -- I have not seen much of other shapes yet) I can't say much about Devin Thomas, as he was already making great kitchen knives when I first joined the forums, but even his knives seem to get better and better as time goes by. If anything, he made great performers before and is now making them more and more beautiful as customers keep gettinghim to push the aestheic envelope and top his previous best.

You makers have a lot of guts coming onto BBSs like this and soliciting feedback. To a certain extent, it tells me that you are interested in making a fully functional product, and not just a piece of jewelry. And I can tell from some of the posts that a couple makers have produced a few kitchen knives, and are only finding out now that the profiles, thicknesses, etc. probably made for poorly-performing knives but the customers likely had no idea, as who knows what knives they have gotten used to using over the years.

In the coming years, I am really looking forward to being able to order knives from a dozen or so really good American makers, along with a handful of the best Japanese makers.
 
I would do it for free if I could and if I ever win the lottery that's just what I'll do too. :)
 
I would like to give kudos to the knifemaking guys that normally show up on the forums, they all seem genuinely interested in learning about kitchen knives.
I do not know as much as many here on cutting and sharpening, but i strive to improve every time. That is also what i hope to get when i order a knife. Something made by someone who tried really hard to do better than last time.

So thanks to all you knifemakers that strive, it keeps me wanting more knives and learning more about how to use them!
And last but not least, thanks to all the really knowledgeable people that tries to inform the knifemakers, without you i would still be using Globals and not know better...
 
DevinT said:
Jackie married me for my money. When that didn't work out I had to start helping around the house.

Jackie says that I can make anything but money. he he

Hoss
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Oh yes. I remember that story when you had to wash dishes. :)
 
I hope people get into it for the money.

Most people think that's stupid, but you can make money doing anything--the product doesn't really matter THAT much. Groupon took one of the worst, most unprofitable, waste-of-time ventures--online coupons--and is now worth $760 million. I just want to provide for my family--not make a million a year. But most knifemakers think of their craft foremost and their business second. Murray Carter, I would imagine, does not, and he is doing fine for himself.

It's a social rut. People don't buy kitchen knives and people don't use knives because Americans are spoiled, plain and simple. But with the recession forcing people to eat at home, and with all the "Green" crapola, and all the popular rejection of modern food standards...people are going to run into their knives.

There's a strong market need, but most guys who want to grind steel and hammer hot rocks all day aren't exactly the kind of guys who get into the heads of housewives.



My point is this: I doubt I will ever find that I have the money to buy a knife that was made primarily out of a strong passion of the perfect knife. I want a knife that excels at it's appointed task, but I also can't blow a month's rent on it. It's not a priority issue--the money simply isn't there. People should make knives for folks like me, and if the pursuit of god-like zen mastery isn't what they had in mind when cutting my knife to shape, fine by me.
 
ok you got me i too thingk you can make money of of anythingn if you have brains(hell you dont even have to chaet ppl out of it )
but if it was not for the challange and art of making knives im sure i could make more $$ makig other stuff (razors maybe :) )
but liek i tel evey one
i have tools, i can make money. even if its makig somethignk i never thought i woudl to sell case in point a few have seen kellys pendant and now want to knwo when i ll be makig more
 
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