Frustration with Instagram and webstore races to get custom makers' new knives

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He speaks English though šŸ˜œ

Regarding the ā€œfastestā€ to buy. The problem is that it is VERY easy to set up and use a bot for these shopping systems that most of the makers are using.

I know of at least one instance myself where they indeed have been used.
 
First off, I think that it's important to be able to discuss ideas without completely derailing the issue at hand. Off course, it has to be acceptable to prefer a different purchasing situation. Let's discuss the idea, and stay away from ad hominem.

I was actually thinking about the selling situation at lunch today (using my Heldqvist, which was a really quick custom order BTW). There's always a way of reducing demand with scarcity pricing. That would theoretically remove this issue completely, and also increase the revenue for the knife maker.

Then I started thinking about economic sustainability for the knife maker. How many knives will the maker be able to sell at the higher price level? I think that the maker can get into a really problematic situation, where he's forced to lower the prices again. How will this affect those who bought when prices were high? Will the other customers be put off?

I think that the only incorrect solution is to suggest that there is a simple solution. It is a complex problem. I also have the feeling that knife makers stumble in to this business due to their passion for knives. So perhaps we need to accept some flaws in the selling system, and instead appreciate the knife makers for their skill at their trade? Or you can always buy a $50k Kramer horse-knife...
 
josemartinlopez said:
Heh, I guess the tendency for your fans is to unfortunately try to sit and wait.

Maybe there is no perfect answer since there will never be enough items for each potential buyer and that's what keeps it exciting. Let me just say that I went out of my way to buy your knives because I treasure our correspondence.
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Yeah that happened to me. But with the same result :) I m gambler so lottery is the best way for me. And the best thing about it is that the CASINO always win! šŸ™ƒ
 
I am curious why no one seems to use existing auction sites? Wouldnt ebay be perfect way for a maker to get the most they can for these high demand items?

I have only used the buy it now function on ebay personally so I dont know how easy it is to screw with the process.

otherwise if a maker wants to continue to sell for a standard price, the random number generator with teh 10$ or 20$ ticket price seems to be most fair.
 
I agree that if a maker sells at high prices to avoid a scarcity of supply, it drives away the masses who can only afford a certain level. Thus once the demand from the wealthy is sufficiently satisfied, it makes it difficult to lower the price point again to make an adequate living for the maker. And if the maker tries to make a second more affordable line, it seems likely to cannibalize from the premium line. From the perspective of a maker, it seems best to supply at a level where it is affordable to the masses while continuing to make a good living as a maker and then adjusting prices upwards little by little while offering improved products.
 
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I think second price auction is supposed to be a "more fair" than other types of auctions. (Second price is when each person bids once the maximum amount they would pay for a knife. The winner is the one who bids the highest amount and they pay the second highest bid. This is the same as ebay auction if you can only bid once).

I think a good compromise might be some percentage of the knives are on a second price auction style and the rest are in some sort of lottery. That way, poor people like me can pretend to have a shot at one of these knives and if you really want a knife from a maker, you can get it without giving money to flippers. Sellers will make more money too, which is always a good thing.

edit: I didn't think about scaring away of the masses. Honestly, I'm already scared away by the prices of most of these types of knives so I don't have much insight :rolleyes:
 
I personally don't like random generators to determine the winner. The hunt and the score brings a lot of satisfaction in the buying process. It makes it more a reward for one's own efforts rather than just random luck.
 
Perhaps highly demanded makers could try a reverse auction with their most innovative knives. Start at a very high price which goes down with time until it hits a certain price which is the absolute minimum the knife would be sold at. Wealthy people who really want the knife will have to decide how high a price they really want to buy at before someone else buys it first.
 
I sort of assumed lotteries were the same as the "hunt and score", but you only get "on" the lottery if you're fast enough.

I bet some mathematician or economist has studied this for general auctions, but I wonder if knife auctions are different due to scarcity or hype/brand of the maker/popular opinion being important makes it different.
 
I don't see why you're frustrated šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

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Thanks for the laugh, this has been hilarious. šŸ˜­ Collectors' Tears šŸ¤£ Some of y'all are so delusional and disordered. It warms my black heart to picture certain frustrating people punishing themselves for hours just to own a knife. So many unexamined assumptions, not only about basic market principles, but your own goals and satisfaction.
 
tchan001 said:
Well the current lineup JML has shown us in his blog is not weak at all. Combined with his "I will buy it" collection from BST, he has amassed quite a collection in only a few months. How many years did you spend to collect your fine collection?
Click to expand...

can someone point me to that blog? Iā€™m curious ...

and yes: the hunt is the satisfying part!
 
alterwisser said:
He speaks English though šŸ˜œ

Regarding the ā€œfastestā€ to buy. The problem is that it is VERY easy to set up and use a bot for these shopping systems that most of the makers are using.

I know of at least one instance myself where they indeed have been used.
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Curious what instance you know of. Bryan himself made a recent post showing site analytics for his store, saying that he has never had a person use a bot to get his knives. His store has a pretty funny reference to it right now šŸ˜‚
 
alterwisser said:
can someone point me to that blog? Iā€™m curious ...

and yes: the hunt is the satisfying part!
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www.kytchenknyfen00b.com
Just copy the link text and get to the blog on another tab. Pressing it while on KKF doesn't get you there. Not by my design. It's the system.
Try typing http:// in front of his blog URL and post it and see what shows up on the post. Censorship.
 
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Ryan Adkins said:
Curious what instance you know of. Bryan himself made a recent post showing site analytics for his store, saying that he has never had a person use a bot to get his knives. His store has a pretty funny reference to it right now šŸ˜‚
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Wasnt Bryanā€™s store, and I wonā€™t disclose it because I have that info from the person who used the bot.

Not every bot is easily detectable as such either, mind you...
 
I think it's all about the random lottery (1 entry per) coupled with high priced wait list. I think that would be the most fair for all parties involved. Would it still benefit those with higher spending limits? Absolutely, but as previously stated, there's no way to have perfect system.
 
I actually had a long E-mail conversation with Bryan about a year ago. I too became frustrated not being able to purchase his knives. I think out of frustration one night I sent him a pretty snarky whining E-mail. To my surprise he responded professionally and gave me great insight about his customer service values and the roadblocks of trying to please everyone.

I then understood from his behalf. How does one attempt to please everyone?

Does he work by keeping a waiting list going that would extend to years of waiting?

Does he do random drops and keep his fan base clicking refresh for hours and build frustration when they don't get it after X amount of hours of work?

Does he publicize the drop time and create a frenzy so it basically comes down to "who has the fastest internet".

Does he work by auction only and drive the prices of his knives to 2K Euro+?

All of these options have draw backs and there will always be a loser. Some work better than others. After the conversation I had with Bryan, he soon decided to start listing multiple knives at once so there were greater chances of you getting a knife.

I think this is a very fair method. The only other method which I believe works better is the Bloodroot method which is basically a monthly drop of usually 10+ knives via newsletter. You then select which knife you want to purchase. They then draw a lucky winner for each knife.

Anyway just my 2 cents.
 
Well, be prepared to be frustrated tonight because Raquin knives will be on his website soon.

There's even a Valyrian Bot for sale.

Valyrian Bot
the most powerful BOT in the market,
forged in Valyrian Steel, quench in unicorn blood.
(see conditions of use, no refund, delivery on 72h )

price : 4,399.00
 
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ian said:
Heh, the former. My French definitely needs work, though. I spent one month in Toulouse a few years in a row, taking language classes in the morning, but I still canā€™t speak worth a damn. Stupid American here.
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Lived in Toulouse a couple times (for over a year each time / flight test for Airbus) and even though I could read/write the language when I arrived it took a lovely lady pointing out to me that in Toulouse they "sing" the language not "speak it". She compared it to the US South ... sort of "y'all" ... it was an epiphany for me once I put a slang accent (sing-song) all the locals finally understood me ... too funny ... also in the South of France (unlike the North / other parts) they put a bit of accent on the end of words not just have them silent ... my $0.02 ... all the best!!

Sorry for the segue ...
 
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I don't think there's any perfect solution - this is something I've been thinking about for years now.

The inherent problem with auctions is that, aside from marketing them well, the seller has no control over how the market perceives the value. What if it was a piece that was way more difficult and took more time, but was slightly different and not really in demand as much? It could end up selling for a fraction of what the maker actually wanted, and that's just one of the terrifying unknowns of running this sort of business. How do you project any sort of financial stability and actually carry through a solid business plan? Do you auction them on a regular basis? Seems like customers would get tired of that as well.

First-come-first-serve sounds like the most fair, but there's the problem with internet speed, timing, and time zone. There are makers that do email newsletters (which can be faster than loading up a cart and filling it out) for one-off pieces and the first committed response gets the knife, but emails aren't accurate within the minute. Sales absolutely get made in that minute, easily. Do you just pick the first response received, even though it might not actually be the first one sent?

Lotteries seem like the least troublesome but also the least pleasing.

Custom lists are too limiting.

Raffles are legal nightmares.
 
When I first got into this hobby, I focused on purchasing knives in the $200-$300 range. I purchased a few synthetics and I went to work learning everything I could about how to care for the more budget friendly knives I had purchased. How to maintain geometry, how to properly sharpen an edge, how to maintain that edge, etc. I didnā€™t even think about purchasing knives over $350 until I got to a point where I was completely comfortable sharpening. I feel like this year Iā€™m seeing more and more people step into this hobby and immediately start purchasing $800 or more blades and Jnats. I know this year was nuts. Probably brought a lot more people into this hobby. Thatā€™s great. Everyone deserves a hobby that they love and enjoy in their life. Just remember, this isnā€™t about having more than the other guy. This forum has more than just the show your new knife thread. Everyone is going to do their own thing and I get that, itā€™s your right. At the same time, if youā€™re new to this hobby, take a step back and learn how to really take care of what you already have purchased. This is not the only hobby that has people who are F1 professionals. Some people have a lot of time on their hands. Iā€™m seeing a lot of new guys buying knives up like itā€™s going out of style. Some even in the $2000 range. Iā€™m not saying thatā€™s a problem. Iā€™m just saying slow down. I donā€™t think bryan raquin is going anywhere. Some of you newer guys have bigger collections than guys who I know that have been in professional kitchens for years. Take some time to appreciate it and learn how to take good care of them.

This is not something I wrote only directed at the OP. Itā€™s a general statement.
Good luck on the hunt. It will happen one day. Tons of blacksmiths out there.
 
Tons of blacksmiths out there, but it's only fun to collect what someone else also wants especially if you have a backup plan where you might not like the knife and want to eventually sell it on BST. Some knives on BST sell like hotcakes while some sell like kryptonite to supermen. I know which knives I want to concentrate my collection on. Not that I won't give other knives a try but just talking about the focus of my collection effort.
 
Fully agree with Robert Lavacca. I joined here a few months ago, looking for a single gyuto. Thinking I'd pay around 300 euro max. Someone already warned me here that I'd end up buying more than 1. As it stands, I'm probably going to spend 1250 euro on knives this year.

But for that amount I'll get 2 gyutos, 1 petty, 1 honesuki, and 1 deba. Seems reasonable for knives I'll probably be using for the next 20 years or so, plus seeing how quickly BST runs, they are not even illiquid assets.
 
tchan001 said:
Tons of blacksmiths out there, but it's only fun to collect what someone else also wants especially if you have a backup plan where you might not like the knife and want to eventually sell it on BST. Some knives on BST sell like hotcakes while some sell like kryptonite to supermen. I know which knives I want to concentrate my collection on. Not that I won't give other knives a try but just talking about the focus of my collection effort.
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Speking of... How was the kryptonite? šŸ˜
 
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