Gesshin 4000 ?

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
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Grunt173 said:
Geez,thanks a lot buddy.lol
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Since we're pitching in to confuse you! :) Don't overlook the JKI Gesshin Jinzo Aoto.

Grunt173 said:
SAFE! JNS is out of stock on the red Aoto......ha! ha! ha!
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Ah, but the description says he was running low and has replaced it with the Aoto Matukusuyama.

I think the perfect solution here is for you to buy one of each and compare and contrast them in a review. (So I don't end up buying all of them out of curiosity.) :)
 
Yet-Another-Dave said:
Since we're pitching in to confuse you! :) Don't overlook the JKI Gesshin Jinzo Aoto.



Ah, but the description says he was running low and has replaced it with the Aoto Matukusuyama.

I think the perfect solution here is for you to buy one of each and compare and contrast them in a review. (So I don't end up buying all of them out of curiosity.) :)
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Hey,why didn't I think of that?:scratchhead:
 
I own the Gesshin 400, 1000, 4000, and 6000s&g.

At first, I loved the 4k. Now, although it still feels great (toothy and responsive), it loads up very quickly, and I need to flatten it just about every time I use it.

It's not as quick to dish as the 400, but it is quicker to dish than the 1000.

I still use it to finish quite a bit because it really does give an edge with great bite. It's just a very high maintenance stone.
 
MrHiggins said:
I own the Gesshin 400, 1000, 4000, and 6000s&g.

At first, I loved the 4k. Now, although it still feels great (toothy and responsive), it loads up very quickly, and I need to flatten it just about every time I use it.

It's not as quick to dish as the 400, but it is quicker to dish than the 1000.

I still use it to finish quite a bit because it really does give an edge with great bite. It's just a very high maintenance stone.
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You should flatten all stones each time you use them... and you're the first person I've heard say the 4k is high maintenance. I tend to prefer splash and go myself though as I feel like soaking stones in general are high maintenance...but I'm lazy like that.
 
MrHiggins said:
I own the Gesshin 400, 1000, 4000, and 6000s&g.

At first, I loved the 4k. Now, although it still feels great (toothy and responsive), it loads up very quickly, and I need to flatten it just about every time I use it.

It's not as quick to dish as the 400, but it is quicker to dish than the 1000.

I still use it to finish quite a bit because it really does give an edge with great bite. It's just a very high maintenance stone.
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Have you found that it actually loads up or it just looks like it does? In my experience with it, even when it looks like it’s loaded up, it still cuts just as fast. Not trying to discount anything that you’re saying... just that my experience has been different. I’ve also found it to be slow dishing, and we specifically have them made harder than some other stones we have, like the 400 and 1000. Maybe I need to test one again from the most recent batch.
 
MrHiggins said:
I own the Gesshin 400, 1000, 4000, and 6000s&g.

At first, I loved the 4k. Now, although it still feels great (toothy and responsive), it loads up very quickly, and I need to flatten it just about every time I use it.

It's not as quick to dish as the 400, but it is quicker to dish than the 1000.

I still use it to finish quite a bit because it really does give an edge with great bite. It's just a very high maintenance stone.
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Ouch! you have me scared now.Up until now,I have read all positives.There is however,one review on the JKI site that the gentleman says it is more like a 1000 grit stone instead of a 4k.Thanks for your review.
 
JBroida said:
Have you found that it actually loads up or it just looks like it does? In my experience with it, even when it looks like it’s loaded up, it still cuts just as fast. Not trying to discount anything that you’re saying... just that my experience has been different. I’ve also found it to be slow dishing, and we specifically have them made harder than some other stones we have, like the 400 and 1000. Maybe I need to test one again from the most recent batch.
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Hurry! lol....Mr. Higgins has me scared and I am the guy who emailed you over the Holidays about the 4k.....hint!
 
I got away from soakers a couple years ago in favor of diamond plates and other s&g.

I liked the G4K a lot, as a finisher for some gyuto, as a step to nats and as a touch up stone. Don't recall loading ever a prob.

When I inevitably rebuild soakers the G2K and G4K will be my first.
 
daveb said:
I got away from soakers a couple years ago in favor of diamond plates and other s&g.

I liked the G4K a lot, as a finisher for some gyuto, as a step to nats and as a touch up stone. Don't recall loading ever a prob.

When I inevitably rebuild soakers the G2K and G4K will be my first.
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I don't permasoak mainly because I don't have the room or the time to change the water often and I see it as more or less a pain. My plans are to use the G4K like I do my G 400 grit and just soak it briefly until it holds water which isn't exactly very long.When done sharpening,I have a place for them on a rack in a cool place for them to dry.I do that with my S&G's too.I just think the soakers have better feedback and feel to them.I have diamond plates too,that I use for other people's knives but because of their lack of soul,they are put away,same with my good Arkansas that I don't use anymore.
 
Yikes, I didn't mean to scare anyone, just tell about my experiences.

Like I said above, I really like the tactile feel of the 4k, and it is my most common finishing stone because of the very useful cutting edge it creates (just enough bite).

I do think it has the tendency to load up during a session. It starts to cut immediately (good), but then starts to feel a little slick, with less feedback (not so good). When that starts to happen, I give it a moderate scrub with the rough side of a spounge.

With the dishing, I think it is quick to dish for a high grit stone. One commenter said to flatten every time, but I don't have to with my 1k, and I think I've only flattened my 6k once in a month.

I think the pros outweigh the cons. I don't mind high maintenance if the results are great. Hell, in my ski racing days, I could spend 10x more time on base and edge prep than I did actually skiing.

I don't think the 4k feels like a Gesshin 1k, but the two totally complement each other. They are obviously siblings.

I would 100 percent buy the 4k again.
 
Permasoaking my stones has made my life so much easier. I change the water once or twice a month. The stones are ready whenever I need them and I do not have to dry them (takes several days with soaking stones). On top of that I have lacquered my Bester 220 on all sides so it lost all its thirst. Of course it would take for ages to dry with only one surface able to evaporate through. I have all of my soaking stones glued to a 10mm thick PVC for support.

I will move most of my S&G stones that can not be soaked (JNS300 and AI#1000) to my workshop soon.
 
MrHiggins said:
Yikes, I didn't mean to scare anyone, just tell about my experiences.

Like I said above, I really like the tactile feel of the 4k, and it is my most common finishing stone because of the very useful cutting edge it creates (just enough bite).

I do think it has the tendency to load up during a session. It starts to cut immediately (good), but then starts to feel a little slick, with less feedback (not so good). When that starts to happen, I give it a moderate scrub with the rough side of a spounge.

With the dishing, I think it is quick to dish for a high grit stone. One commenter said to flatten every time, but I don't have to with my 1k, and I think I've only flattened my 6k once in a month.

I think the pros outweigh the cons. I don't mind high maintenance if the results are great. Hell, in my ski racing days, I could spend 10x more time on base and edge prep than I did actually skiing.

I don't think the 4k feels like a Gesshin 1k, but the two totally complement each other. They are obviously siblings.

I would 100 percent buy the 4k again.
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Thanks Mr. Higgins,that made me feel better.
Ski,oh boy,I loved that in my younger days,even though I spent more time on my butt then on my skis.I took up skydiving.It was safer.lol
 
Matus said:
Permasoaking my stones has made my life so much easier. I change the water once or twice a month. The stones are ready whenever I need them and I do not have to dry them (takes several days with soaking stones). On top of that I have lacquered my Bester 220 on all sides so it lost all its thirst. Of course it would take for ages to dry with only one surface able to evaporate through. I have all of my soaking stones glued to a 10mm thick PVC for support.

I will move most of my S&G stones that can not be soaked (JNS300 and AI#1000) to my workshop soon.
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I would probably have problems with soaking stones in my well water with all the iron in it.I have a water softener but still...
 
You could add a bit of baking soda. That might help. Or just use a common kitchen water filter
 
JBroida said:
Have you found that it actually loads up or it just looks like it does? In my experience with it, even when it looks like it’s loaded up, it still cuts just as fast. Not trying to discount anything that you’re saying... just that my experience has been different. I’ve also found it to be slow dishing, and we specifically have them made harder than some other stones we have, like the 400 and 1000. Maybe I need to test one again from the most recent batch.
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I’m going to test this tonight. The 4k does show plenty of streaks after sharpening a knife but I work up more mud on the stone between knives during a session.
I’ve sharpened as many as 4 knives at a time on the 4k and between knives I simply hit the stone with atoma 140 just to get a little more mud. Usually the streaks disappear during this process in just a few seconds and the stone is just as effective at sharpening.
 
Just a little update to my original post but I patiently awaited JKI to get more 2000 grit stones in and when they did,I ordered it and also ordered the Gesshin Syn. Natural as well. I have used them in a progression with my Gesshin 400 and I am here to tell you,I could not be any more happier with my results.Good call guys and gals.Thanks.
 
Hi guys, sorry to digging this thread up again.

I'm considering getting a couple stuff FROM Jon to try out (and yes I have been in constant touch with him) so I'd like to get your opinions as well.

Right now I only have a Gesshin 1000/6000. At first I thought I should grab a 2000 when it's available, but Jon advised that it might overlap with the 1000 side I already have.

Then I considered one of the 3 400 grit stones he carries, but I'm not sure if I'm ready for a coarse stone yet.

I saw a few pictures of the dreamy Jinzo Aoto kasumi finish and I definitely want it, but Jon says that while it makes a nice kasumi finish, the edge it leaves doesn't feel like a natural stone edge, which the Synthetic Natural excels at.

So I'm wondering, (@Matus since you've used both), is there room in a set up for both the GJA and GSN at once? Would it make the 6000 side of my combo stone redundant?

What about the G4000 - would it make more sense to get the GJA and G4000 instead?
 
I have not used the Jinzo (GJA) and my understanding is that it exists especially for the kasumi finish. I have frankly no idea what kind of effective grit it has an whether it would be a replacement for a 1000 - 2000 stone. Ask @JBroida about that.

GSN will give you little more aggressive edge that indeed reminds more of a coarser suita and will have more bite than a 6000 edge. I would say - GSN is great for kitchen knives. If you want to use the stone also - say - for razors, than keep the 6000.

Frankly - for the edge you should not be missing anything with the 1000/6000 stone. Combination of G2000 and GSN would effectively replace it, while GJA would be an addition for the kasumi finish.

G4000 gives even more aggressive edge than GSN - it really is a bit finer version of the G2000. It is also a bit harder than the GSN (which I would call medium hard). For my taste (subjective!) the G4000 would be a bit too aggressive for a finisher, but it is also a fairly fast stone (and faster than GSN).
 
I like my Gesshin 4K. Gives a very satisfying toothy edge. As Matus says its not great as a polishing finisher. I use some Jnats for that.
 
Thanks so much @Matus. I like the GSN more the more I learn about it. Could you explain what an "aggressive" edge is? (say, if I cut a tomato with a knife finished with the GSN vs G4k, how different would they feel?)

I've been a bit confused between a high grit "finishing stone", a "finisher", VS a stone that gives a nice/ high contrast kasumi finish (say, GJA). Please correct me if I'm wrong, a high grit finishing stone (say, G6k), would be used to refine a medium grit edge (G1k or G2k), and created a microbevel. Whereas a medium grit stone that creates high contrast (GJA or King 800) would be applied to entire wide bevel (say of my Kochi) to work on the finish itself, and doesn't necessarily need to be used in the actual sharpening of the primary edge - is that the case?
 
Yes, Jinzo will make your blade road pretty (like your hinoura for example). Creates great contrast. Personally, I wouldn’t use it for the edge if you already have a 1k and 6k. Jinzo is a really easy stone to use, so if you don’t have experience with this kind of thing it’s a great first stone to try.
Cider with regards to finishing stone, what are you looking for?
 
Thanks labor, good to know! If by finishing stone, you mean the one to use on the edge, I think I want to try something that grabs into produce being cut easily (as opposed to sliding?) I honestly haven't used the G6k side of my combo stone enough yet to know if it already does it or not, but I'm curious how/ if the GNS and G4k would differ (since you mentioned they're very different stones).

As for the GJA, I want to be able to learn how to create a nice kasumi finish on the blade road of my knives. My favorite so far is the Kochi - it's a wee bit darker gray and has more contrast than the Hinoura and I want a stone that can potentially put a similar finish on the Hinoura.
 
Can’t really help you with trying to match a finish. There’s so much going on in the world of polishing, you may have to try different things to get the results you want. Jinzo is effective, looks cool and is easy to use.
I guess for finisher you’re saying you want something with more bite and less refined edge. But you really need to use your 6k more so you can form a stronger opinion before you make your next stone purchase ;)
But yeah I think you would be happy with synth natty or gesh 4K. But also, figure out if you want splash and go or soaker, hard stone or soft stone. Or you can just be like me and try a bunch of stuff overtime and stick with the things you like the most.
 
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