Got Sharpening Questions?

Find deals on amazon
Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
This playlilst might be of some help:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEBF55079F53216AB

these specifically:
[video=youtube;WYZmtDlwDi4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYZmtDlwDi4&list=PLEBF55079F53216AB&index=8&feature=plpp_video[/video]

[video=youtube;kA0vdeDDSJI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA0vdeDDSJI&list=PLEBF55079F53216AB&index=9&feature=plpp_video[/video]

[video=youtube;cCY5CKkBers]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCY5CKkBers&list=PLEBF55079F53216AB&index=10&feature=plpp_video[/video]
 
JBroida said:
This playlilst might be of some help:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the informative videos John. Although you primarily do many forward and backward strokes, which seems more efficient time wise for grinding down the desired amount of metal, occasionally you will do one stroke for the whole edge. Also, did your style just changed over the years, because in your aritsugu sharpening, you seem to pretty much go back and forth along the whole edge (for the most part) instead of sections at a time like in the playlist you posted.
[video=youtube;4PjI4YPz01M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PjI4YPz01M[/video]

I also have a question about honing.

In this image, there are exaggerated cases of a knife edge that is out of true. The top being more severe.
BpvNp.gif

It seems that the top knife would catch the stone when honing edge forward, which is what many people would do with a honing rod. Even when maintaining the primary angle, it seems to me that the actual angle of the edge is such that it would cause more damage than good.

Do any of you have any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Kei
 
Thanks Jon for the video's.Picked up a few tips.I've been sharpening thin carbon Gyuto's fr. what I learned FR. Sushi Chef his tech worked better than anything I had used before.Never had to use a dull knife since almost 30 yrs.

Three fingers middle finger bent rt on the cutting edge sharpen blade heel to tip moving along to tip

Fingerpad pressure ON trailing stroke OFF return stroke.No need lift knife off stone,just release pad pressure on return.I use this on Gyuto,Cleavers,single bevel Japan Blades,Even Machete's.

The only exception is removing the burr on a single bevel is a lite push stroke or as in your video a side sweep stroke.Is important to use lite press. on hollow grind side flattening too much can ruin the geometry of the blade.You can also use a push stroke just the weight of blade at last sharpening angle for stone burr removal wt. Gyuto & cleavers.

Another thing is to have a well defined Shinogi line you do not want to round it or Sashimi will not separate off the blade as well.Cutting Sashimi & Sushi topping I never used a micro bevel,that's just the way I was taught by a couple more Sushi chef's.That & never let that extremely sharp edge bang into anything,just Fish & pref. a wooden cutting board.

I started using a small Yanagi as a utility blade I found out after a few chips to put on a micro bevel.I also put a micro bevel on my Deba & Usuba.The edge was soo thin on my Suisin Usuba,I know some purist will not put a micro on Usuba's.

Working long shifts cutting & multible sharpening I deff. had Tip problems.Bird beaks & broken thin tips.Esp.since I prefer thin Carbon Gyuto's.Before I learned tip sharpening I would turn Sugi's into thin spikes after a couple yrs.

I learned tip work & double blended shinogi lines(another way of describing thinning behind the edge) fr.Japan trained guy's as well.The first one's tech was so good that when I ran into problems like my lack of good tip work I went straight to the Sushi dudes.It made a big diff. no more bird beak's or broken tips.My Gyuto was geometry was much better over many sharpenings.:knife:Chiharu Sugai covers tip sharpening for Gyuto Yanagi & petty in the Korin DVD.He speaks mostly in Japanese & some is lost in the translation,However there is some good tech. in that DVD.Daves is good as well.I started using a spray bottle to loosen my mud also got my first daimond plate after I watched his DVD.I was fortunate to have one on one for all my sharpening needs I do not take it for granted.

I never used a strop in the workplace or even saw one.A friend of mine I met on knife forums got me into strops & Spyderco's.

I am not at all surprized that you got a great edge wt. a Bester 1200 on a CCK cleaver.I like the Med. stones alot you get a toothy edge that is great for most cutting needs esp. wt. Carbon steel.I used the Bester 1000 as my main stone at work just that one stone for my carbon carbon Masa's & Konosuki.My Yanagi's I touch up on a 5K Rika.

I encourage persons to learn freehand,a little freehand skill goes a long way.You really do not have to go out & buy alot of stones,jigs etc.All you need is some skill,a stone,and a blade.You can also sharpen wood chisels,hatchets,& axes.You can get slip stones that are good for alot of things,like sharpening gardening tools.

Well Dave you asked for input thanks for this thread.:cheffry:
 
KeiOkay said:
Thanks for the informative videos John. Although you primarily do many forward and backward strokes, which seems more efficient time wise for grinding down the desired amount of metal, occasionally you will do one stroke for the whole edge. Also, did your style just changed over the years, because in your aritsugu sharpening, you seem to pretty much go back and forth along the whole edge (for the most part) instead of sections at a time like in the playlist you posted.
[video=youtube;4PjI4YPz01M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PjI4YPz01M[/video]

I also have a question about honing.

In this image, there are exaggerated cases of a knife edge that is out of true. The top being more severe.
BpvNp.gif

It seems that the top knife would catch the stone when honing edge forward, which is what many people would do with a honing rod. Even when maintaining the primary angle, it seems to me that the actual angle of the edge is such that it would cause more damage than good.

Do any of you have any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Kei
Click to expand...

Yes, my style has changed over time, but its still pretty much the same look (except i do the tips a bit differently now and i no longer advocate the sharpening mostly on one side). I also dont really use felt, cork, leather, or any diamond sprays anymore (but thats not to say they dont work... they just dont fit into the way i sharpen). The motion is back and forth. In the newer videos, i break things down, make the more simple, and slow them down, so its not an accurate reflection of what my sharpening looks like... rather, its what i think will be easiest to learn from.

On honing, i dont like honing rods at all. Their main purpose is to bend the edge back into place. Bending metal over and over again can cause fatigue. So using honing rods will straighten out your edge and also weaken it at the same time. Anyone who's used one knows that you end up having to go back to the rod more and more often once you start using it. This is not to say there isnt a time and place for honing rods, i just prefer to spend 5 minutes on a stone and get a clean sharp edge that lasts a much longer time.

Quick question... what kind of damage do you think would occur from using the actual angle of the edge? You'd be surprised at how quickly stones can grind something like that off. Plus, you can always begin your stroke with an edge trailing motion just to be sure.
 
I like a smooth polishing steel or smooth ceramic,just a few measured strokes,Coarse & daimond steels can wreak havoc on a thin carbon gyuto.

Angle is important too.should be the same or just a hair more as your last angle on the stone.Daimond steels have got popular,when I see a cook wailing away on a steel at too steep of an angle,trying to restore an edge,it shows a fundimental lack of freehand skills on a stone.
 
I think this will help a lot of newer people - is there a pictoral guide to what you are supposed to see step by step with a magic marker? I was never sure what it was meant to achieve. How it was meant to achieve it. And what specifically you were supposed to see.

I can and do get a decent result these days. I'm not sure how sharp the definitive edge is (or if mine is a wire) but it seems approximately the same level of sharp that my 2 carters were out of the box. I'm not sure if this is good enough either. Hard to have a relative/absolute guage without a good point of comparison. Still refining my technique to be more consistent when sharpening by sections. Used to sharpen full length.
 
Stolen from another forum:

The blue "sharpie" is what is should look like when you apply the marker. It should color the whole width of the bevel.

The area of the red "sharpie" has the stones missing the shoulder and hitting just the edge (exaggerated for illustration). If this is what you're getting, then you are probably adding a microbevel. This can be good if that is what you're trying to achieve. If you merely want to sharpen at the factory angle, then it means that your angle is too wide.

If you get something like the green "sharpie", then you're angle is too narrow and isn't sharpening the edge. This is what you don't want to see for sharpening, but is what you want to see initially if you are re-profiling to a narrower angle. If re-profiling, it will look like this until you remove a lot of material off the shoulder, eventually working it down until the stones contact the whole width of the bevel.

What you want to see, when re-sharpening to factory, or whatever the current edge angle is set to, is the non-marker part. When you remove all the marker, it means that the whole edge is being sharpened.
Click to expand...
attachment.php
 
actually, when you use sharpie you want to color in the bevel AND a little of the area behind the bevel. That way you can see when your angle is way too low and when you are scratching the area behind the edge. You'd be surprised at how often this kind of thing happens.
 
JBroida said:
On honing, i dont like honing rods at all. Their main purpose is to bend the edge back into place. Bending metal over and over again can cause fatigue. So using honing rods will straighten out your edge and also weaken it at the same time. Anyone who's used one knows that you end up having to go back to the rod more and more often once you start using it. This is not to say there isnt a time and place for honing rods, i just prefer to spend 5 minutes on a stone and get a clean sharp edge that lasts a much longer time.

Quick question... what kind of damage do you think would occur from using the actual angle of the edge? You'd be surprised at how quickly stones can grind something like that off. Plus, you can always begin your stroke with an edge trailing motion just to be sure.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions John. I really appreciate it.

The damage would be from grinding off that bent part, instead of straightening it first then sharpening it. If you look at image A, even when sharpening on the cutting bevel, because the very edge has been bent, it would get totally ruined if it was sharpened on that side, especially when edge leading first. However, metal fatigue is a big issue that I'm glad you mentioned. I guess my problem is trying to find the balance between when I should bend the metal back first to save myself from over sharpening and decreasing the lifespan of my knife, and inviting metal fatigue from bending it back. I suppose the best thing (which was definitely mentioned somewhere in this thread) is to just touch up often, so the knife never gets too far out of alignment?
 
KeiOkay said:
Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions John. I really appreciate it.

The damage would be from grinding off that bent part, instead of straightening it first then sharpening it. If you look at image A, even when sharpening on the cutting bevel, because the very edge has been bent, it would get totally ruined if it was sharpened on that side, especially when edge leading first. However, metal fatigue is a big issue that I'm glad you mentioned. I guess my problem is trying to find the balance between when I should bend the metal back first to save myself from over sharpening and decreasing the lifespan of my knife, and inviting metal fatigue from bending it back. I suppose the best thing (which was definitely mentioned somewhere in this thread) is to just touch up often, so the knife never gets too far out of alignment?
Click to expand...

its also a function of steel hardness... harder steels/more brittle steels (not always one and the same) will chip instead of deforming. Bending them back is not the way to go. Softer steels/less brittle steels can be realigined, but sometimes its just easier to grind in a new edge (which is much easier and quicker than it sounds)
 
Thanks a lot for the marker tips. I might use it as a diagnostic to see if I am doing what I think I'm doing now. So ideally without reprofiling, you should be abrading the entire marker off the bevel.

If you have painted up above the bevel, then that portion should stay untouched unless you are thinning. And if you abrade the lower portion of the bevel it is a micro bevel that is being made, yes?

That is about right yes? I'm guilty of just rubbing my knife on a stone till it gets sharp hoping that I'm doing the right thing.
 
Tristan said:
Thanks a lot for the marker tips. I might use it as a diagnostic to see if I am doing what I think I'm doing now. So ideally without reprofiling, you should be abrading the entire marker off the bevel.

If you have painted up above the bevel, then that portion should stay untouched unless you are thinning. And if you abrade the lower portion of the bevel it is a micro bevel that is being made, yes?

That is about right yes? I'm guilty of just rubbing my knife on a stone till it gets sharp hoping that I'm doing the right thing.
Click to expand...

seems like you get it
 
I have a number of questions related to equipment.

I'm looking at getting my first carbon gyuto. A simple combo stone 1/4 or 1/6k should work. I understand I will also need something to flatten my stones. I see most people using diamond flattening stones. Can anyone link a recommendation?

I also read a lot about stropping but don't know much about it, if its necessary, and what to use. Any info there would be appreciated.

Did I miss anything? :lol2:
 
eighteesix said:
I have a number of questions related to equipment.

I'm looking at getting my first carbon gyuto. A simple combo stone 1/4 or 1/6k should work. I understand I will also need something to flatten my stones. I see most people using diamond flattening stones. Can anyone link a recommendation?

I also read a lot about stropping but don't know much about it, if its necessary, and what to use. Any info there would be appreciated.

Did I miss anything? :lol2:
Click to expand...

For flattening I haven't used anything but the Atoma 140x since I first laid hands on it. You can get them from Dave Martell. Check his section for a link to his store. Stropping is really important to help refine your edge. I used Cromium Oxide on balsa and leather for years but I tried 1 micron diamond spray on rock hard felt this past summer thanks to Dave and it provides the best results I've ever gotten hands down. Stropping is just one of those things where different products work better or worse for different people. Much of it is trial and error.
 
where can i find more info on what to buy for stropping? maybe even tutorials. ive seen a lot about leather, abrasives, you now mentioned sprays.... lots to think about.
 
Lot of info around here for searching and reading. I'm still new to sharpening and stropping but really liked felt loaded with diamond spray I used at Dave's. I use 1 micron spray based on what I've read here. hard to get high quality felt, though. I'm waiting on some from Marko which I'm sure will be great. I've tried leather and balsa, too... what the felt does well is pull off that last wire edge. A hard felt block to slice through in between grits, too.
 
Thought I'd ask this here: How do you sharpen bird's beak knives?
 
Thanks will try this on the edge of my stones!
If not normal stones, what kind of rod would you use?
 
I have a question:

I am not a seasoned sharpener by any means, but I've certainly improved over the six or so months that I've become much more serious about it. The problem is, when I was starting out I made quite a few mistakes being a bit overzealous. One of which was widening the bevel dramatically on a Konosuke Fujiyama gyuto. How does one take it back down? Do I just need a low-grit stone to just grind it down and make the profile of the knife way shorter and start over? I've kept the wide bevel mostly because I simply didn't know how else to deal with it, and I sharpen it at that angle now, though it doesn't seem to take a particularly keen edge anymore. Help with the fix would be greatly appreciated (it would honestly probably be best to post a picture of how bad it is but frankly I'm embarrassed!)

T
 
Hi T,
Do you mean that you laid the knife down pretty low and cut a wide (or tall) bevel at a shallow angle?

What's your normal progression?

Dave
 
Been searching on youtube without much luck for edge trailing sharpening or honing. Anyone have a good video on hand?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top