gyuto Misono 180 mm or .....?

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with what many vg10-haters out there would say, that hattori forum knife is the only line of knives that actually got VG10 done right. some say for that money it might not be worth it because of the type of steel used on the knife. but Hattori are the only guys that know how to do it right, at the very least they have proven themselves to do so. along with the geometry, grind and all of that put together. it is still quite worth the price imho.

not that i've had them or even held them. it's what i've understood from all the praises the knife has gotten in past threads over the years (and i've read many many hours of threads on knives). i mean if you're gonna have a knife in VG10, it might as well be this. and as benuser said, if i could afford it, i wouldn't hesitate. =D
 
in this day i see many knife and the choice is between this santoku ...or spend less money with a carbon still
http://japanesechefsknife.com/TenmiJyurakuSeries.html
http://japanesechefsknife.com/SwedenSteelSeries.html

or with my initial budget
http://japanesechefsknife.com/JCKHattoriForums.html
http://japanesechefsknife.com/HCSeries.html

or waiting for a sg-2 santoku (the price is unknown and the site write "coming soon", but i think about 200 dollars)
http://japanesechefsknife.com/RyusenBlazenSeries.html

when i buy ny carbonext a was undecide between it and Tenmi-Jyuraku Series (Aogami Super)
what do you think?
 
Not trying to hijack the thread but might be a factor for the OP to consider as well given his pairing of the Hiromoto TJ and the Misono Swedish santukos: How does the thickness of these two compare? Is the Misono Swedish a much "better" and usable knife out of the box?
 
In addition only to Chefdog who placed the supposed thickness into perspective:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...oto-AS-Thickness-question?p=173313#post173313

I have the Hiromoto in use since a few years. Never had the Misono Santoku in my hands, but have their 240mm gyuto. Both are excellent performers out of the box, very different though. The Hiromoto is stiff, feels solid, comes with a crazy edge. AS remains toothy, whatever the edge you put on it. The Misono Swedish feels light, has some flex, and a great taper. Comes with a highly polished convexed edge. It never feels as aggressive as the Hiromoto. Both sharpen easily, the Misono even very easily. Because of its taper thinning while sharpening is less imperative with the Misono. The edge retention of the Hiromoto is clearly superior. For best results with the Hiromoto you should start sharpening with a relatively coarse stone in the J400-500 range. You will need it anyway for thinning and clad removal.
Both will perform at their best once the factory edge is gone.
From the pictures I get that the Misono santoku is quite flat. The Hiromoto is more like a short but extra wide gyuto. The Misono Carbon is very reactive. You have to force a patina to stabilize it. This will dull the factory edge somewhat, so expect a touch up to be necessary. With the Hiromoto only a few millimeters of the AS are exposed, and AS is not particularly reactive, and will get a nice patina when in use.
 
I'm biased, and have purposely dodged Hiromoto, for some reason, but the price is hard to argue within even still.

However, I love Misono.... :D I know it's not cool, but oh well!
 
I should add that the Misono F&F is exceptionally good at this price point, and the Hiromoto is OK, if that matters.
 
Lefty said:
I'm biased, and have purposely dodged Hiromoto, for some reason, but the price is hard to argue within even still.

However, I love Misono.... :D I know it's not cool, but oh well!
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Which remembers me: both are strongly right biased!
 
with jck, you can always have them done for lefties. as i am a lefty. i sharpen lefty biased anyway, if i end up buying used ones, they'll become lefty biased eventually from my sharpening.

as far as i know the grinds are 50/50 but with a sharpening of 70/30 righty biased.
 
franzb69 said:
as far as i know the grinds are 50/50 but with a sharpening of 70/30 righty biased.
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Both have a strongly right biased grinding, whatever the final edge they put on it. Except for the bevel, the left face is completely flat. The right one is clearly convexed. The axis is off centered to the left.
I won't start the discussion about how to adapt right biased blades to lefties, but strongly right biased they are, both.
 
my mistake then. so how come koki says he can have it resharpened for left handed when i asked him via email?
 
i see. understood then. i don't mind this, i have an aritsugu kyoto with similar grind, flat left side, right side slightly convexed, right hand biased. 60/40 or 70/30 as well. doesn't bother me one bit. sharpened it 50/50, works alright with me.
 
Benuser said:
What other knives do you have, and how do you sharpen them?
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i have a gyuto carbonext 270 mm and a stone 4000/1000...carbonext surprised me i feel it very well in my hand and is very easy to sharpen. So i'm undecided beetween a carbon steel or stainless steel...hiromoto blade 190 mm seems more confortable for me, but is just a guess. AO is better than carbonext? Maybe beetwen misono and hiromoto i feel better a blade less flex like hiromoto. Also hattori seems very good but i never try a 170 mm santoku, but try a vg10 steel is interesting. I can't see ryusen but the question for me is if sharpen sg2 will be too difficult for me and i don't know the price
 
All excellent knives, I'm sure. But the Hiromoto offers most value, and is the less expensive one. That would allow you to add a high quality stainless 150mm petty, e.g. from the Misono 440 series, So you won't dull your carbon edges with acidic fruit, for example.
 
what do you think about hc series?....your idea looks very good if i buy hiromoto knife 190 mm (114 dollars) would remain money for a petty (misono 440, hattori or ryusen). I understand that beetwen carbonext and aogami you prefer the second, right?
 
AS is an exceptional steel, and Hiromoto offers exceptional value in the present market conditions.
I am strongly biased: a few years ago I've bought both my Hiromoto 190 and Misono 240 for the same price, $100.
Masamoto has always been overpriced and had in these days terrible F&F issues with their Western knives. Some are just in love with their gyuto profile.
The price of the Carbonext is still competitive. But we don't have to discuss its merits as you already have one, and it's much more fun to have different knives with different steels by different makers. Otherwise Carbonext would be a very serious option in its price category.
 
thank for your hekp. I think i'll buy hiromoyo AO. Later i'll buy jck hattori (petty 150 mm or Sujihiki) i think that i knfe so beauty like hiromoto is better to buy for important work. Also you are right when you say that
Benuser said:
and it's much more fun to have different knives with different steels by different makers.
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because chubo is less expensive and there haven't shippin cost....also ux 10 and other brand like masamoto are less expensive
 
For $231 you can get a Ryusen Blazen 210mm gyuto (180 is $209). It is vastly superior to anything Misono makes and comes with a nice black saya.
 
blackice said:
because chubo is less expensive and there haven't shippin cost....also ux 10 and other brand like masamoto are less expensive
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I don't see a dragon on the chubo one. No dragon, no sale!!!!
 
ryusen is awesome but i think that sg2 is more difficult to sharpen and i'm not very expert. I have a carbonext and i feel very well so i think i'll buy a carbon knife. But 189 dollars for misono ux10 i thinf is a good price. My idea is buy a 180 mm guyto like misono carbon steel or hiromoto AO, and i was going to buy hiromoto, but when i see ux10 at this price i have doubts....After i think i'll buy ryusen or hattori petty 150 mm. But in this momento i need a guyto 180 mm
 
what theory meant was it's the same knife on chubo and jck, but jck has the dragon etching on it.

ux10 is cheaper on rakuten.
 
I have the epicurean ryusen in sg2 (it's a blazen in a party dress), and it's not bad at all to sharpen. The heat treatment may be slightly different than the blazens, tho--as I recall the hardness is a little different. Love my ryusens.
 
blackice said:
ryusen is awesome but i think that sg2 is more difficult to sharpen and i'm not very expert. I have a carbonext and i feel very well so i think i'll buy a carbon knife. But 189 dollars for misono ux10 i thinf is a good price. My idea is buy a 180 mm guyto like misono carbon steel or hiromoto AO, and i was going to buy hiromoto, but when i see ux10 at this price i have doubts....After i think i'll buy ryusen or hattori petty 150 mm. But in this momento i need a guyto 180 mm
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SG2 or R2 are not at all difficult to sharpen, can get extremely sharp and hold it's sharpness for a very long time. Also I'm curious why a 180mm gyuto and not a 210mm at least?
 
because i have a 270 mm gyuto and sometimes is too big. At work i try a gyuto 190 mm and santoku 180 mm and i feel well with this size
 
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