Heiji spa day

[EdipisReks]

Nice post, ER. I agree w/ everything that's been said here. I don't have much to add to...

Jon has told me that w/ a crisp shinogi line, stiction is minimized, just as you described. The less crisp, the more food will stick.

You’ve done a nice job keeping the shinogi line crisp, especially at the tip. Jon has also pointed out to me that on a knife like a Heiji gyuto, the transition isn’t between blade face and secondary bevel isn’t quite as clearly defined as in a true single bevel knife, so these knives are tricky to sharpen properly and maintain that crisp shinogi.

Honestly, I was hoping you’d be able to post some vid footage of how you do the secondary bevel, especially at the tip. I botched mine up pretty badly, and since Jon fixed it I’ve been scared to go at it again. I’ve been practicing a little on some cheaper knives, but won’t know how much better I’ve gotten until I try the Heiji again.

Just for folks to know, I messed mine up by using too much pressure; not maintaining a consistent angle which blurred the shinogi; used to much pressure on my handle-holding hand (I switch hands always have the edge facing me) which caused an over-grind at the heel; lifted the handle too high while using too much pressure at the tip which caused the tip to crumble and break off; over-rotated at the shinogi line at the curve towards the tip which again caused a blurring of the shinogi and made a lot of scratches on the blade face.

I really didn’t realize how thin and delicate the edges and especially the tip of knives like these are. And also, the angles are VERY low and the transition between primary and secondary bevels is very slight. Jon measured the angles for me on a new knife, and the primary bevel is around 5d and the secondary is around 6d. So the included angle of the cutting edge is around 10d total, with only a 1d difference between primary and secondary. Lessons learned.

maybe after i move i'll have time to make a video. it sounds like you know what to do, next time, though. i had owned and used single bevels for a good long while before getting my first Heiji, and most of the process is the same.

 

[EdipisReks]

Are those semi stainless? I love my semi stainless santoku and I was thinking in getting a 240 gyuto also in semi stainless, but it seems that nakaya only makes them in Swedish steel.

they are both semi-stainless, yes. i have a carbon 240 on its way to me, though.

 

[Lukas]

Please do a comparison of both when you get the carbon, I haven't notice too much of a steel performance difference between the Heiji semi stainless and my Shigefusa, at least in a home environment.

 

[EdipisReks]

Please do a comparison of both when you get the carbon, I haven't notice too much of a steel performance difference between the Heiji semi stainless and my Shigefusa, at least in a home environment.

hmmm, i think my Shig and my semi-stainless Heijis are rather different in edge retention, but i tend to cut a fair amount of acidic food.

 

[tk59]

hmmm, i think my Shig and my semi-stainless Heijis are rather different in edge retention, but i tend to cut a fair amount of acidic food.

+1. The semi stainless holds much better for me.

 

[Lukas]

Really? That's interesting, now that the JPY is so low, it makes those knives really attractive. Please do the comparison when you receive it.

+1. The semi stainless holds much better for me.

 

[EdipisReks]

Just got the new carbon Heiji, today. It feels substantially heavier than my 240 semi-stainless, for whatever reason. It's also freakishly thin behind the edge and at the tip. I'll be re-doing my other Heijis, to match this, when I get back from a work trip next week, and I'll update this thread. Might make some video, if I can, as well.

 

[EdipisReks]

I'll get in trouble when my wife gets home, as I was supposed to be getting ready to go out tonight, not sharpening knives, but I left work early after opening the new Heiji. I bought the new Heiji primarily to see exactly how it had been ground. I was about 95% right, in what I had been doing. The 5% difference was hard to see. My tip was nearly as thin, and the cross section was quite similar. In terms of general edge thickness, there was about 10 minutes on a Chosera 1000 between them. However, I could feel small differences between the two knives in the front curve of the knife. Not something I can get a pic of, but I could feel it. I remember Tinh's Heiji feeling like this, and his Heiji cut just a little but better than mine did, with just a little bit less hesitation on some foods.

I replicated this by changing the spine angle, slightly, while thinning on the right hand side of the knife, around the front curve (the section 2-3 inches from the tip, where it curves back up), to steepen the secondary bevel more than I normally do in this part. Not sure if that was the correct way to do it, but the knives now feel essentially the same, when you run your fingers on them, and they both cut a potato the same way. I'll need to finish re-finishing my semi-stainless 240 when I get back, and then I'll thin out my 270, which will need more work than the 240 did, and which is easier to photograph. I'll make that the subject to Heiji spa day part two.

BTW, the saya and handle are very nice on this new one, and appear to be stabilized wood. The saya is a two part, and fits perfectly. I have my camera packed up for a business trip I'm taking this weekend and next week, but here is the pic Heiji-San sent me, when it was ready to ship.

 

[Sambal]

I replicated this by changing the spine angle, slightly, while thinning on the right hand side of the knife, around the front curve (the section 2-3 inches from the tip, where it curves back up), to steepen the secondary bevel more than I normally do in this part.

ER, what do you mean by "changing the spine angle"?

And, with the grind of the Heiji as it is, when you say that you thinned the right side of the knife, am I understanding it correctly that you're essentially raising the shinogi? In other words, if you made the bevel angle more acute the blade road is wider?

 

[EdipisReks]

changed the spine angle in relation to the stone.

yes, i raised the shinogi.

 

[Patatas Bravas]

Just got the new carbon Heiji, today. It feels substantially heavier than my 240 semi-stainless, for whatever reason. It's also freakishly thin behind the edge and at the tip. I'll be re-doing my other Heijis, to match this, when I get back from a work trip next week, and I'll update this thread. Might make some video, if I can, as well.

ER - sorry as I might be rushing you, but any more feedback on the carbon? Sounds as though you prefer the geometry, though one reason I'm interested in a Heiji is the fine rep of the semi-stainless. Interesting though maybe not surprising that two gyuto of the same size and maker but of different steel would have a different shape and weight.

 

[tk59]

...Interesting though maybe not surprising that two gyuto of the same size and maker but of different steel would have a different shape and weight.

Not that interesting. I don't think I could make two omelettes that are exactly the same, let alone a knife. Handmade stuff. I've seen it with every knifemaker. Some more than others. Plus, I'm sure they tweak the knives upon request.

 

[Patatas Bravas]

Good point but I was curious if the difference also could be intentional and due in part to Heiji trying to make the most of the two steels and so shaping the blades a bit differently. The website has the carbon under the 'pro' section and the stainless in the 'home' section, and so this might also imply a different attitude to each.

 

[EdipisReks]

I asked Jon about it. He said that there is a pretty large variability with Heiji, unless you order special (I gave no instructions), so it looks like I just got lucky. Any knife I received I'm use would have been a good one, but apparently I caught Heiji-San on a particularly good day. Knives bought from Jon would not have the variability, as he has specific requirements for the knives.