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Benuser said:
In general, I wouldn't go for a used one as a first Japanese unless you get it from an experienced sharpener. There might be too much work involved you've no experience with.
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I figured that since a common criticism of the CarboNext line is that they don't arrive with a great edge (even if the buyer orders it "extra sharp"), that it wouldn't make much of a difference. The savings should be enough to have it professionally sharpened (if required).
 
Johnny.B.Good said:
I figured that since a common criticism of the CarboNext line is that they don't arrive with a great edge (even if the buyer orders it "extra sharp"), that it wouldn't make much of a difference. The savings should be enough to have it professionally sharpened (if required).
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so if JCK is so great, how come there are complaints about the special sharpening?
 
Alot of sharpeners here are pretty good & sharpen their own knives.Trouble wt. services is,not their knives & attention to detail can suffer.

I sharpened a guys knives that he had been sending back to the place where he bought it for shar. ser.,but it took so long he brought them to me.Who ever sharpened them Did not do correct heel shar.,the heels were high on all 3 knives where he went at an angle to the stone & neglected the heel.
 
keithsaltydog said:
Alot of sharpeners here are pretty good & sharpen their own knives.Trouble wt. services is,not their knives & attention to detail can suffer.

I sharpened a guys knives that he had been sending back to the place where he bought it for shar. ser.,but it took so long he brought them to me.Who ever sharpened them Did not do correct heel shar.,the heels were high on all 3 knives where he went at an angle to the stone & neglected the heel.
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so am i right in thinking that whatever knife I but from JCK I would need to sharpen it myself when it arrives?
 
I got a Tanaka from JCK and it did NOT require sharpening! It depends on the knife.
 
rdpx said:
so if JCK is so great, how come there are complaints about the special sharpening?
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JCK is certainly great when it comes to prices, selection, and shipping. I don't know what the deal is with sharpening. I ordered a Masamoto from them that arrived in no time and was razor sharp.

I've read that the CarboNext knives don't always arrive with a great edge out of the box, what this means exactly (good but not great?) I can't say, nor can I explain why it's the case (assuming it is). Still, the CarboNext series is recommended so often, that I don't think you can go wrong with one. Either learn to sharpen on it by watching videos (like these from Jon at Japanese Knife Imports), or have a professional sharpen it for the first time once it arrives (if necessary).

There are many posts about the CarboNext on this forum. Copy and paste this into Google, hit return, and see what I mean:

site:kitchenknifeforums.com carbonext
 
Since you asked about he 4-star,I will give my input on that. The price you listed and the knife are not bad at all but you have to
Ask yourself what you're looking for. I have that same 4-star and although iit was a huge improvement over the knives I had been using when I got it (went to it from lousy $15 things from Target), but there are better otions out there. If you get your Sabatier fixed up, it's performance will surely be similar to what the 4-star can offer. I would say that it's a better Idea to get your old sab back up to speed and then pick up a new Japanese knife so you can experience a different style of blade.
 
rdpx said:
so am i right in thinking that whatever knife I but from JCK I would need to sharpen it myself when it arrives?
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Whatever knife you buy from anywhere will most likely need sharpening when it arrives. I always give em a test first but the edge usually fails rather quickly requiring I put a proper keen bevel on.
 
A couple knives you listed are pretty good.The Togiharu INOX at Korin France is a good blade,it is thin behind the edge & cuts well.The Inox steel holds up with constant use.

Also at JKI they have the Kenetsugu Pro M,good price,comes wt. a Saya,One of the most comfortable western handle I've seen on a J-Gyuto.Sharp out of the box.

If you get a nice J- Gyuto,learn to sharpen it,then you never have to worry about it being dull.
 
keithsaltydog said:
A couple knives you listed are pretty good.The Togiharu INOX at Korin France is a good blade,it is thin behind the edge & cuts well.The Inox steel holds up with constant use.

Also at JKI they have the Kenetsugu Pro M,good price,comes wt. a Saya,One of the most comfortable western handle I've seen on a J-Gyuto.Sharp out of the box.

If you get a nice J- Gyuto,learn to sharpen it,then you never have to worry about it being dull.
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I have to admit I do really like the look of the Togiharu INOX.... very pretty characters on it.

Then again I like the look of a lot of other ones that I can't afford as well! Like the Misono one with flowers or dragons on it.
 
Benuser said:
In general, I wouldn't go for a used one as a first Japanese unless you get it from an experienced sharpener. There might be too much work involved you've no experience with.
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Thanks Ben

toying with idea of a 240 anyway. Also GF has said she would rather we got a shiny brand new one. I mean the price difference is not enormous enough really, and she would rather any ugly patina marks were made by us!

Still thinking about it all. May even up budget a bit and go for a Hattori HD, a TJ Aogami Super or a Masamoto VG. Still trying to wrap head around what the differences all are.

HD=very pretty
VG=apparently very well balanced
AS=i just like the word SUPER

Carbonext still well in the game, but not sure if its just a "good cheap knife" or if it is actually a better knife than the other 3 I just mentioned...

Its a learning curve, innit?
 
Forget about the HD. Faux Damascus, made by another and sold under Hattori name and priced accordingly. After a few months it doesn't look very attractive anymore.
Masamoto: good knives, great profile, poor value: IMO it's worth about half its price.
Hiromoto: good knives, excellent steel, excellent value.
Carbonext: both good knives as good value
Fujiwara: good knives, excellent value
 
Benuser said:
Forget about the HD. Faux Damascus, made by another and sold under Hattori name and priced accordingly. After a few months it doesn't look very attractive anymore.
Masamoto: good knives, great profile, poor value: IMO it's worth about half its price.
Hiromoto: good knives, excellent steel, excellent value.
Carbonext: both good knives as good value
Fujiwara: good knives, excellent value
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Thanks Ben it's very helpful to be able to scratch the Hattori HD off the list.


So in a face off between 240mms, a Carbonext would be $128 and a Hiro AS $161.... from your post it seems you might lean towards the AS?


Having googled pictures of them both it seems that the AS knives have a very beautiful patina thing going on between the AS edge and the stainless face. The CN knives seem to look less interesting with use.
 
franzb69 said:
i say get both. =D

i would.
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Haha.

Yeah nice advice. Though if I were buying two knives I would probably at least try to get two different styles! I quite fancy a Deba one day.

But no. Sadly I only need one gyuto today, and so at some point I will have to make a decision, fun as it is just talking about it.

:cool2:
 
I do think that you have narrowed it down to choices that you will be happy with either way. Good luck with the decision!
 
chinacats said:
I do think that you have narrowed it down to choices that you will be happy with either way. Good luck with the decision!
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This is helpful, yet not helpful.

We want opinion!

:knife:
 
Quite often the Carbonext comes with a very poor edge, so take into account the costs of getting it sharpened by e.g. Maxime in Denmark, €10 inclusive shipping, plus your shipping costs towards him.
The Hiromoto comes with a decent edge.
Again, both are good knives.
The Carbonext gives a good idea of what a Japanese blade is about. In that sense, it's more average than the Hiromoto with its clad construction and remarkable core steel. Please note the Hiromoto feels stiff and solid, while most others have a very light flex and feel nimble.
 
About Hiromoto thinning: it doesn't need thinning out of the box, it needs thinning behind the edge every time you sharpen. It's true with every knife, but in the case of the Hiromoto, it's imperative. It will teach you proper sharpening and avoiding jig systems.
 
Benuser said:
About Hiromoto thinning: it doesn't need thinning out of the box, it needs thinning behind the edge every time you sharpen. It's true with every knife, but in the case of the Hiromoto, it's imperative. It will teach you proper sharpening and avoiding jig systems.
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Thanks for clearing that up!
 
rdpx said:
Ok I like this firm decision.

Now reading about thinning it is never ending!
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As a general rule, learning how to thin is part of learning to sharpen. It is the only way to really maintain the geometry of the blade. So yes, a never ending part of the game.:knife:
 
chinacats said:
As a general rule, learning how to thin is part of learning to sharpen. It is the only way to really maintain the geometry of the blade. So yes, a never ending part of the game.:knife:
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Yes - at first the idea of needing to thin the AS put me off it, but then I realised I would have to thin ANY knife...
 
Sharpening is not just putting an edge on a piece of steel. That might be done by a machine, or by a man reduced to behaving like one.
It's more about restoring the previous geometry in another place - slightly upward towards the spine, where the blade is slightly thicker.
 
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