How to identify grind issues

[Dave Martell]

The truth will set you free!


7 out of 10 = shanked

Well lucky me..I got three out of ten that were perfectly fine.. what are the odds? maybe I should buy some lottery tickets.....

Please don't take this the wrong way but maybe you just haven't recognized the problem yet? I have no idea at all what you know or don't so this isn't at all personal, I'm simply saying that I've heard this same thing before and it wasn't the case. I of course hope that you're correct and that you're knives are fine.

 

[shankster]

This isn'tt exactly true, yes they're a concern but not in a major or common issue, however, some makers are known to have major & common issues with (over) grinding. This is why I go on about Moritaka so much (versus every other maker) - because they're habitual bad grinding offenders whereas most others do a very good job. There are some exceptions like Aritsugu A-types - they suck grind wise as well. As for non-Japanese (American) knifemakers there's lots of over grinding going on here - 2" wide belts make for 2" wide divots.






On flex - it depends because if a knife is over ground in a way as to be too thin then yes it'll be flexible but it's more likely that a knife will be thick and have overground section and be very stiff still.

If the sides are ground uneven then yes the knife can steer. This is very common with many Japanese knives that are purposely designed with uneven grinds from side to side. That's Ok for those knives though since they're purpose built and the user needs to learn proper technique to perform said purpose correctly. I believe most gyutos (even asymmetric ones) are not meant to steer though.






If a knife steers from flex then I'd say it's the wrong knife for the task or maybe just wrong for you.

Japanese knives are all ground asymmetrically - every last one of them so finding them ground uneven from side to side is to be expected. Is the knife ground correctly for the type of knife that it's meant to be - this is the question.

Clear markers for overgrinds are an edge bevel that goes through different thicknesses (along the length) like a roller coaster. A wide (at the heal) bevel that steadily decreases to very thin at the tip is normal but tall and short and tall again are clear indications that the knife has been overground in sections. The thin sections are the overgrinds. I suggest sharpening the knife upon receipt - if the bevel goes all roller coaster like then you just uncorked the maker's cover up. It's easy as hell for a maker to cover up an overgrind (looks great OTB) but it's way easier for you even to uncover it by using a flat stone.

Another clear marker is the low hanging heal or a hole in the edge that shows light under the edge in one spot or where another spot doesn't allow for the edge to make full contact with the cutting board.

I like to not only look at the edge as it rolls along the cutting board but much more accurately assess the board contact from eyeing down the length of the edge with the tip in my left eye (well almost) and cutting edge up. If you look down the belly (using your right eye) you'll see everything clear as day.

You can also go one step further and use an engineers square (straight edge - not a ruler!!!) to find highs and lows on the blade sides. Pay particular attention to the area immediately (1mm) above the edge bevel - this is the zone that'll cause you trouble when sharpening.


Hope this helps you some.

Dave

Yes!!! This is the kind of answer us "noobs" are looking for from our master

I have much to learn from you and others on this forum so I don't take any advise you give to me "personally",just the bashing and people jumping on the bandwagon.
I've had the knives for almost a year and so far so good,no over grind issues.They still perform above and beyond my expectations Not bad for an entry level J-knife

Cheers
Peter

 

[Eamon Burke]

Hey, it's only libel if it's not true, and the guys at Moritaka have stated in writing that they are not concerned with their overgrind issues because they believe their customers use them in such a way that overgrinds don't affect performance or sharpening, and this is an area of QC they are willing to sacrifice, to keep costs low.

I think this is the same miscommunication as when people demand that everyone believe that all famous musicians are skilled musicians, rather than just being ok with the fact that they love music made by unskilled musicians. Moritaka puts out knives with lots of overgrinds. An overgrind doesn't make a knife into a spoon. It makes it a knife, with an overgrind.

 

[tk59]

...I think this is the same miscommunication as when people demand that everyone believe that all famous musicians are skilled musicians, rather than just being ok with the fact that they love music made by unskilled musicians. Moritaka puts out knives with lots of overgrinds. An overgrind doesn't make a knife into a spoon. It makes it a knife, with an overgrind.

For whatever reason, I laughed outloud when I read this. It's so true. It makes me think about all of the people that post about how their particular DTITK's are flawless, for example. These are Hoss' bargain line. He'd lose money big time on this project if he tried to make these knives "flawless." These knives are good because he is generally able to avoid flaws that significantly detract from performance.

 

[shankster]

For whatever reason, I laughed outloud when I read this. It's so true. It makes me think about all of the people that post about how their particular DTITK's are flawless, for example. These are Hoss' bargain line. He'd lose money big time on this project if he tried to make these knives "flawless." These knives are good because he is generally able to avoid flaws that significantly detract from performance.

Exactly! I never expected a "flawless" knife when I purchased my Moritakas(I never even knew they existed) but what I got was a great performing knife for a great price and that's all I could ask for.

 

[Dave Martell]

Yes!!! This is the kind of answer us "noobs" are looking for from our master

I have much to learn from you and others on this forum so I don't take any advise you give to me "personally",just the bashing and people jumping on the bandwagon.
I've had the knives for almost a year and so far so good,no over grind issues.They still perform above and beyond my expectations Not bad for an entry level J-knife

Cheers
Peter

Cool....but I'm no master!

I'm sorry that I didn't answer sooner.

 

[goodchef1]

For whatever reason, I laughed outloud when I read this. It's so true. It makes me think about all of the people that post about how their particular DTITK's are flawless, for example. These are Hoss' bargain line. He'd lose money big time on this project if he tried to make these knives "flawless." These knives are good because he is generally able to avoid flaws that significantly detract from performance.

I probably would attribute that to successful marketing and web hype built up around the net by a few people. This is a good Book

“Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion” outlines the principles of consistency, reciprocation, social proof, authority, liking and scarcity. In the introduction Robert Cialdini states; “I can admit it freely now. All my life I’ve been a patsy. For as long as I can recall, I’ve been an easy mark for the pitches of peddlers, fund-raisers, and operators of one sort or another.” Masterfully researched and written over the duration of 35 years, the book explains the psychology of why people say “yes” and how to apply this understanding to everyday life. As consumers, we like to think that we can’t be easily fooled by a salesperson. However, the book proves that we are being “sucked in” everyday to buy things we don’t want or need.

 

[tk59]

I probably would attribute that to successful marketing and web hype built up around the net by a few people. This is a good Book

“Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion” outlines the principles of consistency, reciprocation, social proof, authority, liking and scarcity. In the introduction Robert Cialdini states; “I can admit it freely now. All my life I’ve been a patsy. For as long as I can recall, I’ve been an easy mark for the pitches of peddlers, fund-raisers, and operators of one sort or another.” Masterfully researched and written over the duration of 35 years, the book explains the psychology of why people say “yes” and how to apply this understanding to everyday life. As consumers, we like to think that we can’t be easily fooled by a salesperson. However, the book proves that we are being “sucked in” everyday to buy things we don’t want or need.

Is this why I have so many knives? I need to read this. :nunchucks:

 

[Dave Martell]

Nobody here needs that book....let's just back away from the bookshelf slowly.

 

[geezr]

Nobody here needs that book....let's just back away from the bookshelf slowly.

OK.....but too late :O.....sucker for "Limited Editions", includes ice cream from supermarkets :rolleyes2:

 

[Dave Martell]

Here's a couple of pictures of an American made (Bark River) chef's knife with overgrind. You can see pretty clearly how it won't take but a couple of sharpening jobs before a hole appears in the edge.

 

[Dave Martell]

Here's a worst case Moritaka.

 

[obtuse]

That's pretty terrible... thanks for the illustration

 

[SpikeC]

Thanks Dave! That really drives the point home. It also shows how someone who slices as their only cutting technique would not notice any problem.

 

[Eamon Burke]

mighty fine photos. and WOW that moritaka has a problem.

 

[UglyJoe]

Come on, Dave, there are some OTHER sharpening services out there that say that's perfectly normal and they could sharpen it up where you wouldn't any day....:nah:

 

[Dave Martell]

Come on, Dave, there are some OTHER sharpening services out there that say that's perfectly normal and they could sharpen it up where you wouldn't any day....:nah:

Yeah I've heard that before.