How useful is a deba or yanagiba if you don't regularly break down whole fish?

[valgard]

it's not so much evidence of the claim but rather that is specifically what the knife makers say about kiritsuke... it is designed to combine what one can do with both an usuba and yanagiba (though not as well as either, of course). The kiritsuke design is not really that old at all... but most of the knife shapes we see today aren't that old, to be honest. Some shapes date back just a couple hundred years, while others are slightly older than that, but nothing is really that old. A lot of the shapes we see today are from towards the end of the Edo period... I feel like many people just assume they are much older than that. Some of the older shapes are crazy though. When I was in college, I wrote a thesis that covered some topics of Japanese food. In my research, I came across many older shapes and styles of knives. Deba closely resembles some, but there was much greater variety and the cross-sectional geometries were different. The Meiji jidai was when you started to see many of these things become more codified, as well as when many of the modern double bevel shapes and styles began to be made.

That's some cool info, thx for sharing.

 

[Customfan]

That was very informative, thank's Jon!

Is there a reference or source to go to learn more about the evolution?

 

[JBroida]

That was very informative, thank's Jon!

Is there a reference or source to go to learn more about the evolution?

there are a few books in japanese that i spent time working with, but not a lot in english... there were one or two, but i cant remember the names off the top of my head

 

[TimoNieminen]

If the kiritsuke is a recent enough invention so that we know who invented it, and we know that's what they said about the invention, then it's fact, and we know it's fact. If it's a few generations old, and the inventor's identity is lost in the mists of time, then it's speculation. Just because the speculation is accepted and passed on by knife makers doesn't make it correct - just try asking martial artists about the history of martial arts and see what kind of myths they try to feed you (I think knife makers will be much more reliable than martial artists, but still not to be automatically trusted on points of history).

A lot of Japanese cuisine as we know it today is quite recent. Lots of change in what people have been eating in Japan over the last century and a half, so no surprise to see a lot of evolution in knives.

 

[Salty dog]

If I have to break down whole chickens or ducks I'll break out the deba. I find the sharp sturdy edge very useful and the beveled side works well separating meat from the bone. The beef of the blade is good for manipulating the bird and "breaking" the joints.

I find the yani design allows for length and little to no flexibility which I find useful in cutting large proteins. Not my first choice but have no problem using one of the big ones.

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

Would still love to know even in what year the now-common white and blue steels were formalized....

 

[jklip13]

Would still love to know even in what year the now-common white and blue steels were formalized....

I will need someone to chime in with specifics but I believe it was Iwasaki working as a consultant for Hitachi that helped come up with those steels

 

[panda]

no wonder iwasaki steel is so good, he's the source!