I'm Finally Becoming A Man

[Mucho Bocho]

Bi, no you can on my model, only goes to 10 degrees without modification, the pro model will allow a zero angle. so your saying that you have to grind the whole blade profile to properly thin the knife? Doesn't sound right. If I grind/thin at a 10 degree angle and create a 2-3mm bevel, then cut in a 15 degree bevel on that, then finish with a 20 degree micro-bevel on that, your saying the 10 degree primary bevel is not thinning?

How do you properly thin convex blade then? I'm not being contentious as certainly don't have all the answers. Please explain

 

[bluntcut]

Can you drop the angle to 0?

Otherwise what you do is just extending edge, not thinning

Yes, I can zero-grind on an EP by padding the clamp area or double-side tape a 2cm piece of wood to the blade. Also to convex, I tape SiC wet&dry onto a leather strop or mouse-padded blank. Sharpness off EP & freehand are about the same, especially when strop finished.

If there be any sharp-off (just for fun ofcourse!), competing edges should finished on hone not strop. I bet my freehand against my EP self :tooth:

 

[bieniek]

Bi, no you can on my model, only goes to 10 degrees without modification, the pro model will allow a zero angle. so your saying that you have to grind the whole blade profile to properly thin the knife? Doesn't sound right. If I grind/thin at a 10 degree angle and create a 2-3mm bevel, then cut in a 15 degree bevel on that, then finish with a 20 degree micro-bevel on that, your saying the 10 degree primary bevel is not thinning?

How do you properly thin convex blade then? I'm not being contentious as certainly don't have all the answers. Please explain

Sure I can try to explain.
From where I sit, proper thinning of japanese knife doesnt mean you have to work on whole blades face, cause the blades side/sides are ground convex.

Please check this thread out, pictures worth thousand words

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/8524-Yoshikane-petty-thinning-job?highlight=

But first let me tell you that Im Tormek fan. Its same gizmo just with engine. I have the T7 version with the 4000 grit japanese blah blah wheel
It works tremenously well if you have to sharpen fast many knives. Mediocre knives. You have 30 Tojiros? I would not like to sharpen them all by hand, please, no.
And so here comes tormek, the edge it produces is beyond acceptable, aand I totally agree theres learning curve to proper usage.
But would it work best for some carbon thin high end japaneses? I dont want to try.
And the time require, well, much less than with stones. I admit that....

 

[JBroida]

Bi, no you can on my model, only goes to 10 degrees without modification, the pro model will allow a zero angle. so your saying that you have to grind the whole blade profile to properly thin the knife? Doesn't sound right. If I grind/thin at a 10 degree angle and create a 2-3mm bevel, then cut in a 15 degree bevel on that, then finish with a 20 degree micro-bevel on that, your saying the 10 degree primary bevel is not thinning?

How do you properly thin convex blade then? I'm not being contentious as certainly don't have all the answers. Please explain

a large number of knives i know have thinning angles around 2-3 degrees

 

[Justin0505]

Can you drop the angle to 0?

Otherwise what you do is just extending edge, not thinning

I have only used the pro model, but I know that its possible on the apex if you just add a little wood block or spacer to the bed.

For me, learning the concept of thinning behind the edge was very easy on the EP, because you can make angle adjustments in infinitely small increments until you get it just where you are BEHIND the primary bevel and not on it or too high up. One big bonus to the learning on the EP is that you are actually looking at the same side that the stone is touching so you instantly see the effect of each pass.

When I started thinning a blade with an uneven grind by hand, I wasn't sure at first how much was of the uneven abrasion was from my wobble and how much was from the blade, but when I put it on the EP, I KNOW that the angle is consistent and the inconsistencies are in the blade and not my hand/head.
In this way I very much view the EP as a learning and confidence-building tool.

Now, I've very confident in putting a nice shinny knife on my atoma diamond plate and grinding away behind the edge, but if the knife belonged to someone else, I might still start it off on the EP...

 

[Mucho Bocho]

BI, I get it now. I'm not sure that i've actually thinned a knife before. I'm going to have to play with the EP a bit more cause I aint going to invest another grand in bench stones. I have a 400/1000 combo shun bench stone. Think that would help or is the DMT the way to go?

 

[Mucho Bocho]

I just made this gig to assist. Hand-sharpening people please get that grin off your face. :happymug:

Maybe not convenient but at least its possible

 

[bieniek]

The problem is though, that with hand you adjust the angle to the blade, but here you would have to adjust the blade to the angle, which gets especially difficult near the tip.

Simplest example i think is single bevel knife. To thin it you have to follow the curve and shape of the shinogi ---> lamination piece of bevel.

As to the stones, you dont have anything near a grand for a grand results. Edge of off that shun stone should be great well stropped.

Just try to thin with the 400 grit side. Place the blade flat on the stone, appy pressure with your fingers just where you want the meta to be removed [0.5cm from edge?] and do a few moves.
Personally i think its very rewarding.

 

[Mucho Bocho]

You're on. Maybe I get me ex Mac I knives back and mess with those first

 

[Cadillac J]

I aint going to invest another grand in bench stones.

No need to spend that much money even if you did decide to. My setup is simple and consists of 3 stones (600, 1200, 5000), I don't use strops/compounds anymore either....so the total cost new would be about $170 and you can get edges that would battle against anyone elses. Not to mention I've been using these same stones for years, sharpened what feels like thousands of times, and they still have tons of use left in them.

I am a free-hander because I think its fast, fun and flexible...just my opinion, and I have no problems with device users at all. In fact, I've been into EDC and folding knives recently much more so than kitchen knives...but now I've realized I don't get as much enjoyment sharpening these 2-4" blades which also typically have more belly than a fullsize gyuto, so I contemplated getting an EP or Wicked Edge for these specifically (as well as friend/family knives). Just can't bring myself to do it yet, especially when I don't need to.

 

[Mucho Bocho]

Cadillac, was wonder where you've been, not seen much from you lately. Thanks for the advise. so a 600 beson, 1200 bester and 5K Siue Hara is what you're thinking? I've laready got a DMT XC flattener