J-knife for rock chopping

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mark76

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Most J-knives are not really suitable for rock chopping due to their profile (and their hardness). For rock chopping a German-like profile is generally better.

Do you know any Japanese knives that have a profile that is a little more suitable than most other J-knives for rock chopping? It doesn't have to have a German profile, but just a little more curve.
 
Mark, what about the Zwillinge Kramer? I am not sure the edge would be up to rock chopping (but putting a more obtuse micro bevel would probably fix tat), but the profile could work.
 
To my (limited) knowledge a lot of the Shun knives have rather German profiles.
 
Thanks guys. But I'm looking for a *real* J-knife, not a Shun or a Zwilling Kramer.

And perhaps I wasn't clear: it doesn't have to have a true German profile, just a little more rounding than a "standard" J-knife profile.
 
For rock chopping some shuns and other non Japanese blades have way too much tip sweep. A J-gyuto with less but some curve to the tip to me actually work better for a little rock chopping.
 
The Hattori Forum (FH) lends itself to rocking as there is little, if any, flat on the blade profile. It has been some time since I have used one so I don't know if the blade profile is consistent with the early models.

Pesky
 
mark76 said:
Thanks guys. But I'm looking for a *real* J-knife, not a Shun or a Zwilling Kramer.

And perhaps I wasn't clear: it doesn't have to have a true German profile, just a little more rounding than a "standard" J-knife profile.
Click to expand...

Strictly out of puzzlement, why do you not consider a Shun to be a real J-knife?
 
A Shun is a real J-knife, just like a Global, but I don't like the steel.
 
What are you guys thinking of a Kochi for this purpose? It's definitely not got a German profile, but maybe a little more rounding than most J-knives, I think.

Or maybe even a Kato?
 
@mark: Initially the Kato also crossed my mind. But I own a few and they are too thin behind the edge and crispy-hard in the steel for rock chopping: I would expect a chipping problem unless you are extremely carefull and that is not what I think about when I think about rock chopping.
I don´t know it they are still avalibel but the old kind of Itinomonn kurouchi gyutos were tall and had a lot of belly. I think they would make good rock choppers.
- Kim
 
El Pescador said:
The Hattori Forum (FH) lends itself to rocking as there is little, if any, flat on the blade profile.
Click to expand...


On the 270mm Hattori Forum I had, there was a massive flat spot from the heel out. In fact, it was the largest flat spot I ever seen on a gyuto (or chef knife). For rocking over veg, it was the perfect profile.

Assuming you're chopping herbs, I can't say which knife would be best. I'd like to share a video Theory posted though, which may help with technique.

[video=youtube;naJl1C4jkU8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naJl1C4jkU8[/video]


I think a single bevel would limit the amount of bruising but that's another topic. I'm not sure if bruising is a problem for the OP.
 
I guess I demonstrate 3 techniques in this old video. 1st push cutting, then walking the blade and finally I don't know what the hell that last part is called. Turbo mode? lol So technically I don't show the rocking technique that many refer to being described as that smooth belly never leaves the board locomotive driving motion. Although walking the knife is generally considered to be even more "harmful" especially if you are not careful.

The reason I stopped doing rocking with J blades wasn't because it was harmful or anything. It was because with that motion my knives were getting stuck in the sanituff boards that I use. They basically teach you to push cut instinctively.

I think 90 percent of it is technique and the other 10 percent is the tool. While yes a slightly more curved blade will feel smoother on the board. Really flat blades I refer to as clunkers and I personally do not prefer them.
 
Thanks for that Rick. My underlying goal by sharing your video was to show that there's other techniques we can use; rock chop isn't the only way. I understand you didn't actually perform a rock chop in this one.

I reason I sway away from rock chopping is simply because of poly cutting boards. I love using the technique on an end grain.
 
You are right, it does work fine on wooden boards.
 
Mark,

BTW, I clicked on your knife blog. Very well done. Amazing photography.
 
laxdad said:
Mark,

BTW, I clicked on your knife blog. Very well done. Amazing photography.
Click to expand...

Thanks! And everyone else with suggestions, too.

Anyone got any ideas about rock chopping with a Kochi? (I'm predominantly interested in the profile, not so much with possible chipping.)
 
I was curious myself. Rock-chopping with a Kochi seems to work fine for me, profile-wise. I do fret about the crazy thin edge, but I've had no issues with either the stainless clad or carbon 240 while monkeying around with them tonight cooking dinner.
 
I think Zakuri would be the way to go for rock chopping. It certainly can be done with a kochi, but those are pretty thin behind the edge knives.
 
I would not dare to rock-chop with my Kochi Santoku - way too thin IMO. Zakuri could be a good option though.
 
The profile for Ryusen Blazen/Takamura HSPS Pro has a bit of curve near the tip/forward third of the blade. Mac Pro is also a good choice here.
 
Here's your rock chopping with a J blade video.

[video=youtube;WaMdLa1_BFw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaMdLa1_BFw[/video]
 
ThEoRy said:
Here's your rock chopping with a J blade video.

[video=youtube;WaMdLa1_BFw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaMdLa1_BFw[/video]
Click to expand...

Is that your R2 Tanaka? If so, it certainly shows that high hrc can easily be overcome with solid technique. :knife:
 
Yup Tanaka R2. I don't know why everyone is so worried about blade damage. I know this conversation is more about profile shape though but still.
 
Yeah. I can't say my technique is as good as Theory's but I would consider it solid, and it's not uncommon for me to rock chop with my gyutos including my PM ones. The only one I'm maybe slightly extra careful with is the Takamura R2, but I'm not worried about my Blazen (similar to Takamura Pro).
 
ThEoRy said:
Yup Tanaka R2. I don't know why everyone is so worried about blade damage. I know this conversation is more about profile shape though but still.
Click to expand...

I hear ya. But sometimes when using the "walking the board technique" real thin behind the edge knives
Can get caught in poly boards and chip on you.
 
Poly board bad! The video looks like a sani-tuff. I would probably have to adjust to rock less if on poly (using end-grain at home).
 
ThEoRy said:
I don't know why everyone is so worried about blade damage. I know this conversation is more about profile shape though but still.
Click to expand...

There are others probably more qualified to comment, but my own personal experience is that it tends to depend upon sharpening... The kind of edges I like to keep on my knives bite into the cutting board a bit, and any kind of torque from 'walking' or cross-chopping wipes out the edge or can induce some chipping. If the type of edge you like cuts through food but not into the board, either due to lower refinement or more probably a more obtuse angle (Even from a generous micro-bevel), it's probably less of an issue.

- Steampunk
 
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