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mjs

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looking for a first decent knife for my 26 yo daughter. Excellent cook. Looking for a stainless 210. Seems to be a good sale on at Sur la Table. Any comments on the Miyabi Koh or Kaizen 11? Better offering for price at JKI etc?
 
Look for a 210mm VG-10 Gyuto from any of the popular online shops. The will simply work much better.
 
deskjockey said:
Look for a 210mm VG-10 Gyuto from any of the popular online shops. The will simply work much better.
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Better than what? The "popular online shops" I'm familiar with don't offer a knife I would own.

I bought my daughter a Gesshin Ginga Gyuto a few years ago - pre Gesshin Stainless days - I think it's the only knife she owns now.
 
I believe he was saying any vg10 knife from an online purveyor would be a better dollar value than those from SLT. Not necessarily the best recommendation though.

I'd second the Geshin stainless, or their Gonbei Hammered for not too much more.
 
I find it very tough to buy a knife for someone else. I know gift certificates are perceived as a copout sometimes but it is better than seeing a good knife go unused. I suggest a gift certificate from an online retailer so she can pick her own. Japanese Chefs Knife has a wide range of products, 7$ (very fast) shipping, frequent sales (plenty of stainless on sale presently) and rock solid service. Gift certificates available.
 
I usually buy things from Suisin Inox's line for gift knives. Not too thin for a J-knife novice and has decent steel. Plus, Suisin's always have good F&F in my experience.

However, the next time I purchase a gift knife I am definitely getting Jon's Gesshin Stainless line. I'm thinking I'll probably buy one just to mess around with and give it away to a friend.

Edit: Regarding the steel, both are AUS-8 and while it is not a very highly regarded steel on the forum, I find Suisin's Inox line to be pretty easy to sharpen for stainless and way easier than any VG-10 I've dealt with.
 
mjs said:
looking for a first decent knife for my 26 yo daughter. Excellent cook. Looking for a stainless 210. Seems to be a good sale on at Sur la Table. Any comments on the Miyabi Koh or Kaizen 11? Better offering for price at JKI etc?
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I have a Koh and I use it on occasion even though I have better knives in my lineup such as my Konosuke knives and others. The Koh has close to neutral but leaning to handle heavy balance. It is an integral handle/bolster that feels like a wa but has the heft of a yo. The blade is laseresque and zips through product well. It sticks a little worse than my Ginga and Kono but not as bad as my Suisin Western or Misono blades. The profile does not support rocking very well and has only a small flat for chopping. It excels at glide cuts. Fit and finish is good to great with a well rounded spine and choil. The FC61 steel, which I believe Zknives equates to 13c26 sharpens up nicely, takes to refinement well and holds an edge better than okay. All in all a good knife at a good price.

That said, the Gesshin stainless is a LOT of knife for the money and I like dealing with Jon in general. It is not quite what I would call a laser but it is closer to that than what I call a middleweight. It has much better food release though. The F&F is great and it comes with a saya too. It feels more authentic.

Neither of these knives compete with my Kono's, Ginga, or many other knives imo but I still use both my G-Stainless and the Koh.

That said, when dealing with non knife nuts I tend to lean toward more commercial items. Friends and family often have no interest in my J-knives, think they are odd or are intimidated by them due to price and or perceived fragility.
 
rick alen said:
I believe he was saying any vg10 knife from an online purveyor would be a better dollar value than those from SLT. Not necessarily the best recommendation though.
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My mother worked retail in the kitchen department for many years. I would take any decent Japanese Gyuto in VG-10 over anything she ever had in the display case. Henckels and Wusthof were the 'premium' brands and they were easily twice as expensive as what I could buy them for online at the time. Twice the price of a Henckels and Wusthof will buy you a nice Gyuto. Skip the price gouging at the shopping mall!

A German knife patterned after a Japanese knife still leaves a lot to be desired when you factor in the inflated price charged for equivalent quality in a true Japanese knife.

So yes, for value and performance, while in-elegantly stated, I would skip the overpriced SLT/Macy's/Williams Sonoma/... knives for a good Japanese Gyuto from a reputable online vendor. Is VG-10 the best blade steel, no. However, it is stainless and forgiving for a novice who may panic if they leave the carbon core stainless clad blade wet with citrus or other similar ingredients. Unless you are routinely hacking through chicken bones and prying apart frozen hamburgers with your chef knife, almost any reputable stainless Gyuto is going to perform better in most 'undefined' roles.

Case in point, I resurrected a 240mm AEBL stainless Gyuto I bought ~4 ago that got put away during a move. Overall, I was not terribly pleased with it. However, after using a German pattern chef's knife I grew tired of 'smashing' things into submission and dug that knife out of storage. Re-edged, it perfroms much better than its German competition. Is it an ideal knife, no, however it didn't cost me anything to put it back into service and retire the German knife.

There are a lot of good knives to choose from when you know what you want. As a gift for someone who is not familiar with carbon clad Japanese knives, I would tend to go conserative myself. For around $125, you have a lot of purchase options in a Japanese knife that would serve most people very well versus a $100 for a German chef knife.
 
I'm 26. My wife is 24 using an MR. Itou for the past 2 years.
Her requirements were. 1.stainless 2. Damascus 3. Western handle 4. It's a pretty handle.
So I'd recommend the same to your daughter. Find a 210 mr. Itou in R2 steel with a handle to her liking.
If it's too much money, I also agree something from Jki (Japanese knife imports) is always a good idea. Jon has high standards for what he carries.

Sorry deskjockey. I'm also thinking vg-10 is not great. Despite what is Advertised or how it's viewed by the general public.
Whiskey example** -- what's a good whiskey? Response of general public: johnny walker (generic vg-10). Response of whiskey forum members: grab a Aberlour (gesshin stainless)
 
mjs, filling out the questionaire is really a good idea. Other that that you can not go wrong with Aberlour :)
 
LucasFur said:
Sorry deskjockey. I'm also thinking vg-10 is not great. Despite what is Advertised or how it's viewed by the general public.
Whiskey example** -- what's a good whiskey? Response of general public: johnny walker (generic vg-10). Response of whiskey forum members: grab a Aberlour (gesshin stainless)
Click to expand...

No worries LucasFur! I value your opinion even if it disagrees with mine. I realize VG-10 isn't the second coming for most people in the knife world and there are better steels available. However for a mainstream choice, I will take it over the vast majority of what I find in the retail channels.

Regarding the 'whisky/whiskey' references, I'm a BG-42 guy myself for stainless. I also prefer aged Bourbons and German beer! :drool: :beer:
 
I'm gonna disagree with LucasFur and others. But amend your recommendatiom... VG-10 from any of the reputable J knife vendors.

JCK has some great offerings in VG-10. And they come with some bling which is an added bonus for some.

I own a shiki from there and have never had any of the issues that people all bang on about when talking about VG-10. Like anything if it is a "cheap" build it will be average. But I tend to think it gets bashed purely because some of the mass producers use it badly rather then objective analysis of the steel.

Also I note Jon now carries some of the ryusen VG-10 lines and reports they are great.

And while I love LucasFur mention on his wifr using an Itou, they are great, I have one and will own more, but they are at a totally different price point? As are most R2/SG2 blades, than VG-10 ones.
 
Nothing wrong with good, well-treated VG-10, but most cheap ones aren't that good at all, and very hard to get a stable edge with. Interesting with VG-10 is the dulling curve: it loses it's crazy sharpness fresh from the stones almost immediately, but what remains is very acceptable in Western cuisine, and stays almost forever. That being said, its maintenance isn't easy at all as it requires good sharpening skills to carefully abrade the burr through the entire progression, and the stuff is likely to develop a wire edge. So, easy maintenance as with a fine ceramic rod is no good idea.
 
malexthekid said:
And while I love LucasFur mention on his wife using an Itou, they are great, I have one and will own more, but they are at a totally different price point? As are most R2/SG2 blades, than VG-10 ones.
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It was some what a Tongue-in-cheek comparison because not filling out the questionnaire will get you various responses. So that is what my wife wanted, a stainless 210.

Bottom line is every knife will seem great when new and sharp, and when you don't have a lot to compare against. If you just want a knife for the sake of a knife that you will not sharpen and just use till blunt and buy again, get any generic VG-10, ... but before you get to that stage, Learning to sharpen your/her old generic blades is potentially a much better option. IMO. sorry for the new can of worms.
 
Whatever it is make sure it is either cute or stylish.

If you can't find one buy a decent knife and send it to your local jeweler to add some bling.
 
mjs said:
looking for a first decent knife for my 26 yo daughter. Excellent cook. Looking for a stainless 210. Seems to be a good sale on at Sur la Table. Any comments on the Miyabi Koh or Kaizen 11? Better offering for price at JKI etc?
Click to expand...

"...decent..." is certainly open to interpretation! Without knowing preferences, price range, etc.—and reading through the rest of the thread to find out. For a 210 I'd recommend, the following three very different gyutos:
JKI Stainless
Masamoto VG
Takayuki Hammered Damascus in VG10
 
Thanks for the thoughts! Called John at JKI. I do not have any of his knives but use several of his stones. He recommended the 210 Uraku Stainless. I think it is a reasonable choice for a law student who has room mates. Also bought her a King Combo stone. Hopefully this will keep her away from my DT and Martel knives.
 
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