Looking for the right gyuto for my sous chef

Advertise with us
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
KCMande

KCMande

KKF Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
447
Reaction score
37
My sous chef approached me yesterday to help him pick out his first new knife. I have given him a few knives over the last few years (nothing fancy, couple macs, over ground misono ux10, a forschner here and there) but it is time for him to pick out his first "real" knife he asked me what a few of my knives cost and just stared at me like "Dude why would you spend that on a knife".
He wants to learn how to sharpen as well. I have been taking care of it for him when I do my own, but he wants to learn, and honestly I don't really love sharpening other people's knives
Looking for some advice in what direction to point him. He has a budget but I have no problem picking up the difference. It is the very least I can do for the kid who has basically carried my ass for the last couple years.

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in?
Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?
Righty

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
western

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
240, maybe 270. Not 100% sure yet

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
I am leaning towards stainless, but could very easily teach him how to handle carbon
What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
He wants to spend around $200, but I am willing to pay the difference if there is any


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Professional

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Basic veg prep (dicing mire poix, garlic, shallot, slicing herbs), some portioning of fish, nothing whole or with bones (that is my job after all), and line work (slicing skirt steak once in a while, cutting crostini for shellfish dishes)

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
would be replacing an overground Mac i gave him years ago so he owned his own knife, more like a sujihiki these days than a gyuto.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
pinch mostly

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
He doesn't have the best fundamental skills but i am working on it. push cut mostly i would say with some rock chopping here and there

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
He is looking for his first new knife, loves my HHH stainless 240 profile, not a fan of my KS though for some reason

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
nothing too fancy for his first "real" knife as he puts it, but not opposed to a nice handle

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
on the lighter side i think, nothing laser like, just not super heavy in the hand.
I would like for him to have a rounded spine and choil because thats what i like, does get the spine blister on his hand from his current mac

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
moderate ease I would say, I would like for him to have good food release

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
I will be teaching him how to sharpen and maintain a knife with this blade so nothing super hard or very soft

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
He uses a plastic board on his station (sysco brand, not even sure where it came from, maybe it came with the restaurant, we don't even use sysco), but i will give him my current sanituff in a month or so when I pick up a new one.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Me yes, Him no (he will be learning shortly)

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes
Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
No, will be gifting him some stones that I no longer use


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
Not looking for shigefusa here, but definitely don't want a shun either. Higher side of the middle of the road, thinking more about gesshin ginga stainless as I write this.

Thanks in advance for any help
 
I think the ginga stainless would tick every box you mentioned except perhaps for food release. I use a ginga gyuto in a home environment and have never really been bothered by food sticking (it's really not that bad) but this might be more of an issue in a pro kitchen where you have to fly through high volumes of prep.

That said I know plenty of pros around here have used lasers at work so I'll defer to them :)

I would also think real hard about the chiku here: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...Chiku-240-Zwilling-Henckels-Friodur-Boner-180

Not stainless but stainless clad and promises to be a hell of a knife for the price.

Finally maybe a PM gyuto like the Akifusa SRS15?
 
James said:
Gershon kagero?
Click to expand...

This would be a great PM choice and it looks like 210s are in stock at JKI. I believe 240s are available from Epicurean Edge under the Akifusa brand -- EE is another forum vendor.

It does appear that the Gesshin version has some improvements to geometry.

I think chincacats has a gesshin kagero? Could comment further.
 
Can't add much other than from the choil pics I've seen of the Akifusa, mine (Gesshin Kagero 240) has much better oob geometry. Jon put the original edge on it so can't beat that to start. Edge holding is what you would expect from pm steel...pretty much only use mine with highly acidic ingredients and edge still lasts much longer than anything else I have (all misc. carbons). Only thing here would be that if he is learning how to sharpen, he won't get much practice:)...I'd personally recommend a carbon steel so he can learn good habits and may find it easier to sharpen. What about a white2 kurouchi Uraku (it's currently in stock and leaves enough $ to look at a stone)?
 
I bet you could put a WTB up and get a HHH from the big batch of production knives for $200, if that is what he likes.
 
Gesshin uraku is nice for beginners since they tend to rock chop(uraku gyutos seem to have a small belly, superb for rocking) also check out itinomonn. They're stainless cladded in v2 carbon.
 
420layersofdank said:
Gesshin uraku is nice for beginners since they tend to rock chop(uraku gyutos seem to have a small belly, superb for rocking) also check out itinomonn. They're stainless cladded in v2 carbon.
Click to expand...

Is the implication here that rock chopping is an amateur technique?
 
If he wants western handle the Kagero is a good choice. The SRS-15 steel is very good. The Kohetsu Blue #2 is cheap at 240mm. Thinner behind the edge than the Kagero, it is stainless clad carbon core.
 
chiffonodd said:
Maybe people newer to Japanese knives? Shouldn't be considered amateur in general as I am sure there are plenty of pros using softer or more German profiled knives.
Click to expand...

Can i just say that you can rock chop with japanese knives, depending profile. I rock with my Gesshin Ginga when chopping herbs sometikes and have never chipped the blade (and i am an amateur). You just have to be concious of the differences in blades.
 
I am always confused on knife skills terminology, what is the cutting motion that is not straight chopping, like if you were to produce a julienne some people will have the tip of the knife always touching the board and only raise up the heel... The knife slowly moving towards their clawed (opposing) hand. This is essentially rock chopping as well no? I would suspect the kind of torque people fear would be just as likely to occur as with the herb mincing technique.
 
I believe a lot depends on technique (not overly torquing the blade), blade hardness (hrc) and possibly how it was h/t'd?
 
malexthekid said:
Can i just say that you can rock chop with japanese knives, depending profile. I rock with my Gesshin Ginga when chopping herbs sometikes and have never chipped the blade (and i am an amateur). You just have to be concious of the differences in blades.
Click to expand...

For sure. I rock with my Ginga when mincing herbs, garlic, chillis, etc . . . But you definitely have to be more careful then with a lower HrC euro knife. Which is not a bad thing! No need to be mashing the board / torque-ing the s*** out of the blade anyway.
 
chiffonodd said:
+1 actually, super comfortable, thin grind, forgiving steel that still takes a pretty good edge, nice flat profile . . . cheesey graphics though :biggrin: still love my mac MBK85, it is my knife away from home
Click to expand...
what does forgiving steel mean?

I have seen more chips and rust on mac knives than literally anything else in my career. Not terrible knives but certainly not tremendously "forgiving" in any sense, and the required obtuse edge bevel necessary to alleviate chipping pretty much negates the thin grind. Handles are comfortable though, and fit and finish is quite nice. They're not horrible knives but for the same money I think any other choice in this thread would be better.
 
spoiledbroth said:
what does forgiving steel mean?

I have seen more chips and rust on mac knives than literally anything else in my career. Not terrible knives but certainly not tremendously "forgiving" in any sense, and the required obtuse edge bevel necessary to alleviate chipping pretty much negates the thin grind. Handles are comfortable though, and fit and finish is quite nice. They're not horrible knives but for the same money I think any other choice in this thread would be better.
Click to expand...

I agree that it wont hold a low angle with anywhere near the integrity of a knife like my Ginga w2. But I found that the factory grind and angle on my MAC pro 8.5 (MBK85) didn't chip at all . . . And it was my first j knife so I'm sure I put it through the works with all sorts of walking rock chopping and the like.

I did get some chipping when I thinned it a bit and took it down to more extreme edge geometry. But the problem went away when I added a microbevel.

So it is definitely more forgiving in its factory configuration, which is not surprising of course - that's how it's meant to be used. Is it worth the price? It is expensive compared to the Tojiro DP or Fujiwara FKM so that's a legit concern. I do love the handle I must say. Never used a Fujiwara FKM but I have a knife in the Tojiro DP series and the handle on my mac pro is far superior. Then again I rounded the spine/choil myself . . .
 
Gesshin Ginga or Gesshin Kagero.

If Carbon, Misono's Swedish Steel series is great. It's reasonably priced, comes with a Western handle, the bigger sized knives come with a dragon engraving, and the carbon steel is VERY forgiving (not particularly reactive).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top