Marco Pierre White appreciation thread

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
Find deals on amazon
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
labor of love

labor of love

Cowboys from Hell
KKF Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
11,311
Reaction score
7,715
I love pretty much everything Marco does, most importantly his outlook on life and his position on cooking as an entension of the self. He offers up plenty of advice here that I found to be invaluable so I just felt the need to share. Also he explains how he rose in the ranks seeking out the best places to train and develop and why he walked away.
 
I go back and forth between being enchanted by his skill and charisma and thinking that he's kind of a toxic ******* and purveyor of culinary half-truths and old school culinary myths. He's certainly a legendary personality, and I was totally transfixed by his storytelling in the video linked above the first time I watched it. But there are many Marcos. There's the young, ambitious, and notoriously difficult "culinary bad boy" who would throw guests out of this restaurant, throw pans at his sous chefs, and throw abuse at television reporters there to make a show about his cooking. Then there's the more mature Marco who gave up his stars to embrace less fussy, more homestyle cooking (the "ad hoc at home" version of Marco). And then there's the "I don't really care, but here's a cooking demo for Knorr" Marco, where he insists that there "is no recipe," (a beautiful suggestion) before spouting nonsense about searing to seal in juices or sauteeing tomato paste to reduce the acidity or to look at the fat cap on a piece of meat to determine its marbling. And of course his personal life, which reveals a pattern of broken relationships. In so many respects, he is very much like his protégé Gordon Ramsay, except the latter is much worse. All in all, Marco is a complex figure that I have both a great affinity for and a great distaste for. But when he starts talking, I can't help but want to listen.
 
btbyrd said:
he is very much like his protégé Gordon Ramsay, except the latter is much worse
Click to expand...
Actually, there are two Gordons as well. His basic cooking course he did on UK TV (Ch4?) was terrific, but his US TV stuff is atrocious. People who have worked with him also tell you how nice he is.
 
TBH I get the ambiguity, but I just don’t feel the need to investigate every inaccurate statement (and there are many) he’s made to decide that his vision is worthwhile and inspiring. Or rather, chef steps or whatever didnt exist in 1984 and much knowledge that was taught and learned was mythical. He’s a product of a different age and which I often find myself nostalgic for.
 
There is a great chapter in Bufford's Heat how young Batali sabotaged Marco's kitchen.
Pierre White had the smarts to spend his forming years in the cesspools of talent with top mentors to develop him (Roux, Koffman, Blanc) and enough business acumen despite (or maybe because of) semi illiteracy to become a multimillionaire. Anyone criticizing him would do great if 10% as successful
 
He’s an insufferable bell end now, but once he was very cool indeed. I liked this article about the influence of White Heat, which is a cracker of a book

You can almost forgive him for believing his own hype right to this day, if even his recent ventures have been mediocre.
 
juice said:
Maybe some people are mature enough to define success as being a decent human being, not simply how much money and notoriety they have collected.
Click to expand...

Even among celebrity chefs and media personalities, it's interesting to watch the differences between the US/UK/Australia programs on the one hand, and something like Masterchef Canada on the other. The US/UK/AUS shows with hosts like Gordon Ramsey and MPW are basically a lot of screaming and straight up bullying. On Masterchef Canada you still have premium culinary talent and experience with dudes like Claudio Aprile, but he never acts like a dick. The feedback and critiques offered on that show also tend to be a lot more useful and constructive.

When I watch Masterchef Canada, I feel like I've actually learned something. When I watch the other shows, it's basically just pure reality TV. Might as well be the Kardashians.

Whether that's a reflection on Marco Pierre White and Gordon Ramsey personally, or just the media markets they have to operate in, I'm not sure. I feel like it must speak to at least some degree of narcissism. They didn't *have* to run their shows that way.

So it goes.
 
juice said:
Maybe some people are mature enough to define success as being a decent human being, not simply how much money and notoriety they have collected.
Click to expand...
I would put it this way:
Woody Allen - incredibly successful director, ****** human being
Mao - incredibly successful leader/dictator, ****** human being
Bill Gates - incredibly successful businessman, questionable character
MPW - incredibly successful chef (multiple stars, rosettes, awards and most importantly many, many successful proteges), questionable human being.
Imo successful doesn't have to mean decent character, you obviously have a different opinion.
 
chiffonodd said:
The US/UK/AUS shows with hosts like Gordon Ramsey and MPW are basically a lot of screaming and straight up bullying
Click to expand...

I haven't watched much Masterchef, but the AU version seems VERY different from the US version. I was surprised by how sane the AU version was, it wasn't what I was expecting at all.

Eziemniak said:
Imo successful doesn't have to mean decent character, you obviously have a different opinion.
Click to expand...
Isn't that exactly what I said?
 
panda said:
awww chef is mean boohoo. my response to that is your pH level being off is not my problem. suck it up, buttercup.
Click to expand...

it's up to you if you dont want your industry to grow/improve.

more people are realizing that behavior like MPWs does nothing but make a lot of talent leave the industry. there's a reason Chang, Redzepi, etc. are on apology tours and Bourdain was spending his time at the end of his life working on it.

ofc kitchens are free to whatever culture they want, just like my neck of the woods is. but personally I would rather foster talent than chase it away. if people have choices theyre not going to stick around and get yelled at all the time, plus it hurts productivity.

btw to be clear I think White is an unbelievable chef and he's fun to watch, and I recognize that he came up through a system and as soon as he got to the top he simply continued the tradition he had come up through. but I would hope that his generation is the last of that sort.
 
Last edited:
chiffonodd said:
Even among celebrity chefs and media personalities, it's interesting to watch the differences between the US/UK/Australia programs on the one hand, and something like Masterchef Canada on the other. The US/UK/AUS shows with hosts like Gordon Ramsey and MPW are basically a lot of screaming and straight up bullying. On Masterchef Canada you still have premium culinary talent and experience with dudes like Claudio Aprile, but he never acts like a dick. The feedback and critiques offered on that show also tend to be a lot more useful and constructive.

When I watch Masterchef Canada, I feel like I've actually learned something. When I watch the other shows, it's basically just pure reality TV. Might as well be the Kardashians.

Whether that's a reflection on Marco Pierre White and Gordon Ramsey personally, or just the media markets they have to operate in, I'm not sure. I feel like it must speak to at least some degree of narcissism. They didn't *have* to run their shows that way.

So it goes.
Click to expand...
UK MasterChef is absolutely nothing like US MasterChef. It's hosted by John Torrode and Greg Wallace and there is zero shouting/bullying to be found. It's a great programme.

Marco Pierre White I am fairly convinced is a true psychopath.
 
E2DA4EC5-3A2F-4787-9E4B-E894D053E2F2.png
 
Migraine said:
UK MasterChef is absolutely nothing like US MasterChef. It's hosted by John Torrode and Greg Wallace and there is zero shouting/bullying to be found. It's a great programme.

Marco Pierre White I am fairly convinced is a true psychopath.
Click to expand...

love UK Masterchef, especially The Professionals. the US one would do well to learn from them.
 
Migraine said:
UK MasterChef is absolutely nothing like US MasterChef. It's hosted by John Torrode and Greg Wallace and there is zero shouting/bullying to be found. It's a great programme.

Marco Pierre White I am fairly convinced is a true psychopath.
Click to expand...

Maybe I confused the UK and Australia versions in some YouTube clips. I am an American after all 🤣
 
panda said:
awww chef is mean boohoo. my response to that is your pH level being off is not my problem. suck it up, buttercup.
Click to expand...

This is why I get a kick out of reading/hearing people complain about their inability to hire/keep quality BOH staff as restrictions are now wearing off.

The industry is filled with way too many ******** who feel that they are tough and macho because they wear an apron and cook food for a living. COVID has given a lot of people the opportunity to step away and re-assess their priorities in life. Spending 60+ hours a week working for $12-17/hr (or even worse, being a sous & getting salary) to prop up some business that is built on a oh-so-solid foundation of floating debt and media hype... No thanks.
 
JDA_NC said:
This is why I get a kick out of reading/hearing people complain about their inability to hire/keep quality BOH staff as restrictions are now wearing off.

The industry is filled with way too many ******** who feel that they are tough and macho because they wear an apron and cook food for a living. COVID has given a lot of people the opportunity to step away and re-assess their priorities in life. Spending 60+ hours a week working for $12-17/hr (or even worse, being a sous & getting salary) to prop up some business that is built on a oh-so-solid foundation of floating debt and media hype... No thanks.
Click to expand...

But if you really loved food, you'd be perfectly happy pissing away your life to support someone else's vanity project.
 
@labor of love I think both sides actually have good points here. MPW is obviously an insanely accomplished chef who has dedicated his entire life to the craft. He, along with other insanely accomplished chefs, also seems to be a complete ******* who has probably chased some really talented cooks out of his kitchen because they couldn't deal with his personality type. I guess that's his prerogative. But it's also indicative of some serious "issues" in the culture.

I don't think there's any chance he's a sociopath, like some have suggested. I've seen clips of him lamenting the incredible toll that the industry has taken on him, how he sacrificed his youth and pretty much every aspect of his life in pursuit of his dream. That's not really what sociopaths do, they're far too manipulative and lazy. More likely he is a tormented soul who has channeled his pain into passion and art.



Narcissist? Maybe. I guess he's earned the right to be.

Anyway, don't mean to **** all over your thread.
 
chiffonodd said:
I don't think there's any chance he's a sociopath, like some have suggested. I've seen clips of him lamenting the incredible toll that the industry has taken on him, how he sacrificed his youth and pretty much every aspect of his life in pursuit of his dream.
Click to expand...
Nah, that would show he may not be a sociopath if he was concerned about what he did to OTHERS. This just shows that he's still a raging narcissist given he's still the only one he cares about.
 
I dont think being a yelling d1ckhead is very productive or conducive to staff growth, but I feel equally strongly that people who can't handle a little diversity also don't belong in the kitchen. no sissies allowed. 🤷‍♂️ better to weed out the softies than to coddle everyone.
 
Last edited:
juice said:
Nah, that would show he may not be a sociopath if he was concerned about what he did to OTHERS. This just shows that he's still a raging narcissist given he's still the only one he cares about.
Click to expand...

Narcissist definitely. At least in the colloquial sense. Clinical? Dunno but probably. It just comes with the territory. It helps to be firmly convinced that you are the greatest in the world to achieve what he has. It also helps to have a preternaturally low stress response and lack of self doubt. And to be a good self promoter.

It's a constellation of traits that is common to clinical narcissists and it's why the top echelons of many industries are chock full of them.

Contrast it with a personality like Anthony Bourdain, whose demons were all self directed. You can feel the difference.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top