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well, i have been looking at pics of KS gyutos for a while and i had always asked me if it just looked rather flat or if it really was rather flat. it's enough that some people find it rather flat... i am sure i wouldn't like the profile then...
 
The KS is definitely flatter than most "standard" gyuto's, but it's not so flat that you can't rock it, if you want to use it that way. It's not dead flat from the heel forward, and has an ever so slight curve, which is it saving grace. Being that it is so flat, the tip is lower to the board, and having such a pointy tip, makes it very easy to use. It's actually no where near as flat as the Moritaka kiri-gyuto - I find it too flat and almost unusable. No fun to use for me.
 
Can anyone compare the ks profile to the Richmond ultimatum and/or the Konosuked funayuki shape (in terms of flatness)?
 
DannyNYC, check out the grind shot comparison photos mpukas took in the masamoto pass around. He compares a 270mm masamoto to a 240 Sakai Yusuke ks clone. Pretty sure the ultimatum grind is much thicker overall.
 
Here are choil shots of the Masamoto KS and the Ultimatum. Guess which is which.

file_zpsb0987188.jpg


file_zps977f28f1.jpg
 
It goes without saying, Rick - LOL.

To get best of your Masamato KS, one needs to thin 10mm or so above the edge. Lay the blade flat on a Bester 500 or equivalent, press with your finger above the edge, and thin both sides until factory bevel is gone. Tip on KS very much of need of thinning. You will need to refinish the blade afterwards. A bit of work, I know but you will be getting a good improvement in performance.

M
 
Pensacola Tiger said:
The Ultimatum profile is a direct copy of the Masamoto KS. The geometry, though, is completely different.
Click to expand...

I had purchased - and returned immediately - a 52100 Ultimatum from the first batch. One of the things I didn't like about it was that it really wasn't a very good copy of the KS. Sure it was flat from the heel forward to about the 1/2 point - DEAD flat, which too me is too flat, and the KS and Yusuke KS-clone are not - but at the last bit towards the tip I thought that it turned upwards too much. Maybe I'm remembering it wrongly. PT - can you post a comparison shot of the tip profiles?
 
mpukas said:
I had purchased - and returned immediately - a 52100 Ultimatum from the first batch. One of the things I didn't like about it was that it really wasn't a very good copy of the KS. Sure it was flat from the heel forward to about the 1/2 point - DEAD flat, which too me is too flat, and the KS and Yusuke KS-clone are not - but at the last bit towards the tip I thought that it turned upwards too much. Maybe I'm remembering it wrongly. PT - can you post a comparison shot of the tip profiles?
Click to expand...

The flat spot on KS is not 1/2, it's shorter.
 
mpukas said:
I had purchased - and returned immediately - a 52100 Ultimatum from the first batch. One of the things I didn't like about it was that it really wasn't a very good copy of the KS. Sure it was flat from the heel forward to about the 1/2 point - DEAD flat, which too me is too flat, and the KS and Yusuke KS-clone are not - but at the last bit towards the tip I thought that it turned upwards too much. Maybe I'm remembering it wrongly. PT - can you post a comparison shot of the tip profiles?
Click to expand...

file_zpsb245b75d.jpg


Masamoto on bottom.
 
Thanks for the pic, PT. That's a much better looking tip on the Ultimatum than the one I had.
 
daddy yo yo said:
i am trying, desperately, not to pull the trigger... but then again, i want to shorten my waiting time for my marko custom gyuto a little...

how do you guys describe the profile of the KS? it seems to be quite flat, no?
Click to expand...

Well I had the luck to win a masamoto KS 240 gyuto, and in my opinion it's crap.. The grind is so uneven and needs like 4 hours of thinning to even get close to cut as all of my other knives.
 
Slipstenar said:
Well I had the luck to win a masamoto KS 240 gyuto, and in my opinion it's crap.. The grind is so uneven and needs like 4 hours of thinning to even get close to cut as all of my other knives.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you got a problematic one, sorry to hear that. Is it one of the newer ones? Mine, circa 2013 if quite good.
 
Slipstenar said:
Well I had the luck to win a masamoto KS 240 gyuto, and in my opinion it's crap.. The grind is so uneven and needs like 4 hours of thinning to even get close to cut as all of my other knives.
Click to expand...
I only had one, but the grind was nice. A little laserish but nice.
 
Mine is OK. It's a very plain knife. Nothing much to say, really. White #2 mono steel. Simple.

F&F on mine is OK, but not brilliant. I received it with a very faint grind mark running for about three inches on one side. You have to look closely to spot it, so it's not a big deal. Handle is fine, but nothing to write home about. Very simple D-shaped handle with Ho wood and a simple buffalo horn ferrule. Same basic handle that you see on hundreds of other knives.

The profile is nice though. It just works, whether I'm pull-cutting, push-cutting, rocking, or chopping. And the tip is stiff and fine enough to do detail work. The profile is what makes a KS shine. The laser-ish grind is solid enough to do reasonably heavy work, but thin enough for it to fall through carrots with ease. Food release is OK, but not brilliant, IMO.

The one thing that sucks is how easily it rusts. I pulled mine out on the weekend after it sat in the drawer (in its Saya) for ten or maybe fourteen days. I was dismayed to find a whole bunch of red rust spots in a long line on one side. Bugger :( It was fairly short work to get rid of the rust, so not a big deal. But, personally, I'm not a fan of knives that rust this easily. Not really suitable for Brisbane climate. It's Tsubaki oil from now on before the KS goes back into the Saya (which is a pain, because I need to wash the oil off before using the knife, and then put it back on before putting the knife away).
 
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Personally, i think the rust is probably not related to ks... it's just a mono white 2... likely more related to 1) storing in saya when 2) knife wasn't completely dry.

Grinds can be all over the place with the newer ones being a bit more consistent, though generally thinner than the older models.

As stated above, profile is why people desire these...
 
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Michi said:
The one thing that sucks is how easily it rusts. Not really suitable for Brisbane climate.
Click to expand...

As already stated your rust is really a result of storing a carbon blade in the saya.
Saya are for transporting, NOT storing your knife.
Either use the knife regularly or store it in its box with the VCI paper.

As far as being suitable for your climate, Japan is almost as humid as Brisbane...
 
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DitmasPork said:
Sounds like you got a problematic one, sorry to hear that. Is it one of the newer ones? Mine, circa 2013 if quite good.
Click to expand...

Mine is from around 2016 or 2017 I believe.
It has a perfect grind 2/3 from the heel and forward but the last 1/3 is horrible, thick direct behind the edge so it cuts like a bar of chocolate.
 
Slipstenar said:
Mine is from around 2016 or 2017 I believe.
It has a perfect grind 2/3 from the heel and forward but the last 1/3 is horrible, thick direct behind the edge so it cuts like a bar of chocolate.
Click to expand...
Good lord. I’ve handled Atleast half a dozen KSs made between 2016-to present and none of them performed that way.
This reminds me of all the raving I did for Wakui and how crazy thin they are. Only to find out not all of them were as thin as my specimens.
BTW I don’t doubt you, sounds like you just got a lemon.
 
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Slipstenar said:
Mine is from around 2016 or 2017 I believe.
It has a perfect grind 2/3 from the heel and forward but the last 1/3 is horrible, thick direct behind the edge so it cuts like a bar of chocolate.
Click to expand...

Thats interesting. Could you post a pic? Also, does it cut like dark or milk chocolate?
 
chinacats said:
Personally, i think the rust is probably not related to ks... it's just a mono white 2... likely more related to 1) storing in saya when 2) knife wasn't completely dry.
Click to expand...
Yes, the rust isn't the fault of the KS, it'll happen with any white steel knife. I was just having a little rant… ;)

I'm usually very careful about making sure things are dry before I pack them away. I might have been careless that time.

I have the knife in a Saya because it lives in a drawer. (I'm out of room in my knife block.) I wouldn't have thought that the Saya would make it rust more easily. Maybe I'm wrong there. The other option would be a plastic knife guard. But the felt covering on that would absorb moisture even more easily and make rust more likely, I expect?
 
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Sounds like you should either invest in tsubiki oil or as suggested store in the original box w vci paper...sayas are definitely not the best option (nor the lined plastic ones).
 
Michi said:
Yes, the rust isn't the fault of the KS, it'll happen with any white steel knife. I was just having a little rant… ;)

I'm usually very careful about making sure things are dry before I pack them away. I might have been careless that time.

I have the knife in a Saya because it lives in a drawer. (I'm out of room in my knife block.) I wouldn't have thought that the Saya would make it rust more easily. Maybe I'm wrong there. The other option would be a plastic knife guard. But the felt covering on that would make absorb moisture even more easily and make rust more likely, I expect?
Click to expand...

I store lots of knives in sayas without issue. The felt knifeguard will be way worst imo, do not do that. I have had issues with knife guards, especially felt. The vci paper works good, if you are still having issues with the saya.
 
labor of love said:
I don’t know what VCI paper is...bout of curiosity is it thin enough to wrap around a knife before you place it in the saya?
Click to expand...
It's just the brown anti rust paper that new knives are often shipped in. I guess you might be a le to fit it inside a (loose fitting) saya, but I never tried.
 
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