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PierreRodrigue said:
I keep seeing the term "Hydration" 70%, 80%. What is this referring to? Obviously a ratio, but to what? 80% fluid? That seems like a lot... Would someone mind sharing either here, or PM a no knead recipe, and take the time to break it down for me hoe the %hydration is calculated or achieved? I know these recipes are mostly by weight, I don't have a kitchen scale, so a volume approximation would be invaluable.

Thanks guys.
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Hydration is the percentage of water by weight to the weight of flour, e.g., 60% hydration for 1000 grams of flour would be 600 grams of water. Here's a good example of how it's used in the context of pizza: http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm

Unfortunately, a kitchen scale is essential. But here's a no-knead recipe from the person who developed it: http://www.sullivanstreetbakery.com/recipes
 
Jmadams13 said:
Been lacking updating this thread. I've been "experimenting" lately with a few new wild yeast cultures, so expect a lot soon.
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I have been doing the same, I have a fermented apple juice going, and a mead mixture. will get pics soon.
 
Nice updates! I had a few mixed results with using guinness, the last one was good taste wise but did not rise very much. I will continue playing around. I also find the hydration to be tricky. Even if I measure it, they don't always come out the same. Maybe it's the humidity in the environment (although I keep everything in airtight buckets), more likely differences in the time I let the initial dough sit (e.g. 18h room temp versus 18h plus a few h in the fridge). Does anyone have systematic experience with different proofing times? Any recommendations?

Stefan
 
Stefan, remember alchohol kills or retards yeast, so the rise will be different, and you may have to work with your formula to get the correct balance when using beer. One thing you can do is heat the beer to 185f for a few minuets and cool it before using. This will evaporate most of the alchohol, and in the case of guinness, probably all, but will not really effect the flavors your looking for in the bread.

On your hydration, even when using air tight buckets (may not be a wise choice though, dough likes to breath) hydration can still be effected by things like humididty, tempature, and most importantly, barometric pressure.

Best thing about bread, just roll with it, tell everyone it's how it's supposed to look, and eat it anyways, lol


Happy baking...
 
Seriously. Hydration is dependent on so many factors.

I've been using a no-knead pizza dough recipe for a few years and, depending on how recently the flour was purchased and opened, I've noticed around a 5 to 7% increase in hydration required for the dough the older the flour had been. This is even with keeping the flour in its original bag, but stored in a closed Ziploc gallon freezer bag.
 
That's why I "age" my four from the mill for two weeks in cotton flour sacks in the basement here before using. Aging also helps some of the wil yeasts present in the raw flour to do some work before using. Not so important or grocery store flour, as that stuff has been on the shelves for god knows how long and in a warehouse for even longer. Fresher is not always better, especially when flour and grains are concerned.
 
Modernist Cuisine suggested to use a 1/4 thick carbon steel sheet to bake things on. I've had much better sucess with it than a baking stone. check out the neopolitan I made last week. I think it took 90 seconds to cook

 
Starter question. If a sourdough starter is "not fed" for a couple months, is it considered dead? If I dump out half, and "feed" it again, will it pick up where it left off, or should I start a new one?
 
Was it in the fridge? If so, leave it out over night, pour off the barm and feed. May take a week or so, but you should be good. I found a starter in my fridge that was over a year old, smelled like paint thinner and ass, an ld after reviving it I still use it.

If not, like left out, give it a try. Mild isn't bad, it will clean itself, as long as its not black or red
 
I think I'm ok. Its bright white, smelled like wine and dough. Poured off half, freshened, within 3 hours, there were bubbles!! 9 hours later there is a 1" head, so I think its ok.
 
It hadn't been fed since December. I keep it in the refrigerator, and its set very low. About 2 degrees. I guess near freezing helped keep it dormant.
 
Should be fine. No harm trying right. If it doesn't work or brings unwanted flavors, just start a new one, or I can dry some of mine and send it to you.
 
I have a question about sour dough starters since we are talking about them. When I go to restaurants with the sourdough bread there dough has an actual sour flavor whereas mine just has a very nice complex flavor but isn't really sour. So are they adding something to there's I do not have or what? I really like mine I just dont detect any sour notes with mine at home. Can anyone shine a bit of light on this?
 
It's all about the starter, as well as fermentation and autolyze techniques. A few questions:

How old is your starter?

How are you margining it, feeding, storage, refreshing?

Is this a Demi sourdough, meaning adding other yeasts to the picture?

What's the formula your using, I can help bring out flavors you want better if I know the formula.

Fermentation times?

This can be fun, I love talking bread, lol
 
I'm going to rethink my first statement... It's about the starter, but a lot of the sour flavors come from fermentation, autolyze, and retarding the dough and yeasts.

We'll figure this out, and get you the flavors your after
 
Been a while since I posted something of my own in a while, here's one.

Rye and millet yeast water English Muffins. Just love playing with yeast waters. Brings a whole new level to my yeast obsession, lol

OBDYVKQ.jpg
 
I would appreciate the opportunity to try your starter. Give a guy a chance to experiment with flavors.
 
Jmadams13 said:
I'm going to rethink my first statement... It's about the starter, but a lot of the sour flavors come from fermentation, autolyze, and retarding the dough and yeasts.

We'll figure this out, and get you the flavors your after
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Mostly I just want to see how to get there, I usually use a pinch of yeast in with my starter. Around 50% hydration. The starter is fed once a week so I figured that was my main problem. I usually mix rise around 3 hours, shape and rise 2 hours and bake. It turns out really good just no real sour flavor.
 
rahimlee54 said:
Mostly I just want to see how to get there, I usually use a pinch of yeast in with my starter. Around 50% hydration. The starter is fed once a week so I figured that was my main problem. I usually mix rise around 3 hours, shape and rise 2 hours and bake. It turns out really good just no real sour flavor.
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Sorry the delay, kinda forgot, lol


Firstly, I would start refreshing the starter at least three days in advance. This will bring new live yeasts and bacteria to the party. Second, I would up,your hydration, to at least 65%. More water makes for more open crumb, and more places for the gasses to move around during fermentation and helping build the flavor.

Third, but not last, slow your fermentation. A longer, slower, cooler fermentation really develops the flavor. I would even suggest retarding the dough in the fridge overnight, 8 hours at least. This can be done prior post shaping, depending on your space. At home I shape and prove till 85% ready, then put in the fridge overnight. Once the bread is at room temp, the proof should be ready and fire. If you retard the whole bulk ferment, bring to room temp before shaping. You might have to do a second fermentation, but this will not be a bad thing. As long as your starter and the yeast you add is healthy, you wont have problems. Just never add more than 3% of yeast by weight of the total weight or you will have yeasty flavors, disguising the sour your looking for.

Try without added yeast and see what happens. Just don't rush it. Demi-sourdoughs are great, but nothing compares to true sourdough.

So in review: keep your starter happy, and well fed well before needing. Raise your hydration by 15%. And SLOW down your fermentation. Hope this helps. Let us knowmhowmit goes.


PS: are you doing at autolyze? This would help too, even a 25 minuet autolyze can make a world of difference
 
First loaf on a stone. I am waiting for my big one to come in. Should be here Monday, a full 1" thick! :D

So I did a sponge for this one. A multi-grain loaf, sweetened with honey.

Sponge:


Dough formed for primary rise:


And first stone loaf! I let it proof in a rattan banneton/brotform.
 
Nice. Glad the stone worked out for you. Ill have to look into on that one for home. My ghetto system I suggested to you works great, but I'm always looking fr options.

Bread looks great btw. First loaf looks awesome!!
 
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