New stainless king of the hill?

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Look, not trying to be a jerk. The lying statement was too much. But...yes, I venture to say those individuals aren't getting awesome edges on s110v with a bester. They might get a nice polished looking edge but it won't cut well. Because the vanadium carbides are harder than the abrasive. With diamonds I'm sure they'd get a spectacular edge. Far better than myself with said diamonds.
 
And of course I welcome any of those sharpeners to disagree. I am no expert despite my pretense. I've just experienced it first hand, and in turn read enough from enough sources that the highest vanadium powdered steels are a different game.

I've gotten zdp hht sharp on regular ole stones with enough effort and endurance. The same effort and endurance applied to s110v results in an edge that can hardly slice printer paper and pushes hairs back and forth like a brush. I may suck. But there also may be more to it.
 
Curious nobody with a wear resistant knife has commented thus far. Have these knives become dull drawer queens ?
 
Maybe they were all so satisfied with the performance they stopped looking for other knives? ;)
 
I just sharpen the especially bad ones on diamond plates. And honestly I hate sharpening on diamond plates so I'm done buying knives with that kind of steel.

Cts-xhp, s30v, s35v, zdp-189, certainly d2/SLD types all are perfectly able to be sharpened on normal stones, just requires more effort. Never tried R2, hap40, srs15, but it sounds like they all are fine too.

At this point, I'd rather use carbon or ginsanko.
 
Yeah to be fair, when using diamond plates you shouldn't ever have any of these problems. Same with silicon carbide I think. Stropping with some compounds (diamond pastes / sprays, boron stuff) should also work. The key is to just use any kind of abrasive that is hard enough to actually shape the vanadium carbides.
It is however also a function of the heat treatment and the distribution and size of carbides. If they're small enough you'll just end up with a slightly toothy but still perfectly functional edge, even if you cannot shape carbides themselves.
 
i dont think i've ever sharpened s110v, but i've used a beston, bester, and rika to sharpen zdp. I've done it with a king before, but it wasnt fun. If presented with a choice, i will generally go for faster cutting stones. Anyways, the point is that it can be done, but why would you want to? If you're investing that much in a knife (or steel type), wouldnt you invest in some stones that work well for it? Thats not to say you need to get diamond stones or anything like that, but just something a bit faster maybe. I think of it like putting regular unleaded gas in a ferrari or getting a $100 lens for a canon 5d or Nikon D810. I guess you could do it, but its just kind of stupid.

For what its worth, i agree with carter in the sense that knife steels should have some focus on ease of sharpening.
 
Just sharpened up a Vietnam Conetta K-Bar. It was in fair shape had seen a lot of use, fixed broken tip. Used the diamond stone to sharpen it got a pretty good edge. Getting a little more experience on this stone.

Think that folders try out different steels like M390 and s110V that have toughness but are not suited for chef knives.
 
Kinda late to chime in.

From my own experience, it only takes moderate effort to maintain the edge of a ZDP (Sukenari) on a #6000 King, it is not something painstaking. I once put my Sukenari on my #1000 King and it did feel & sound like glass, so I understand why Jon & Murray hate sharpening ZDPs on Kings, because the ZDP knives they were sharpening could be very much dull when they came from the customers, and in that case bringing the edge back on Kings should be something very unpleasant.

These days I don't chase the super duper PMs anymore, but if the price and workmanship are great, then I won't hesitate to buy another PM knife.

-Lean
 
yeah... almost no one brings me a knife just for a quick touchup... they are almost always in bad shape when they get to me
 
spoiledbroth said:
Curious nobody with a wear resistant knife has commented thus far. Have these knives become dull drawer queens ?
Click to expand...

I've been using a Sukenari ZDP 189 gyuto for the last three months in a professional kitchen as my main knife.

I bought this mainly because I liked its profile, grind, that it was wa-handled and stainless and also hardened to an extreme. I had been using a SG2/R2 knife for the last year and a half heavily too and so I had also come to like PM steel at work.

I have no complaints.

Everyone at work who has used it has commented on it and many have asked about the price & where I got it. It's one of my favorite purchases ever and a fantastic, fantastic knife. I like my edges on PM steel to be extremely acute and finished at an aggressive grit (around 1k). I'm picky on how sharp my knife should be before work and I can go a week easy just touching up on a felt strop daily. I love that about PM steel.

I use Jon's diamond stone set which are wonderful so I never have a real struggle sharpening. I would not want to try to establish a new bevel with a King stone though...

It's a great knife. Would I recommend chasing knives just because of the steel alone? Not ever. I think there are a lot of really great options out there in stainless. 90% of the folks out would likely be just as blown away by the performance & retention of a Ginga or SIH knife.
 
JDA_NC said:
I've been using a Sukenari ZDP 189 gyuto for the last three months in a professional kitchen as my main knife.

I bought this mainly because I liked its profile, grind, that it was wa-handled and stainless and also hardened to an extreme. I had been using a SG2/R2 knife for the last year and a half heavily too and so I had also come to like PM steel at work.

I have no complaints.

Everyone at work who has used it has commented on it and many have asked about the price & where I got it. It's one of my favorite purchases ever and a fantastic, fantastic knife. I like my edges on PM steel to be extremely acute and finished at an aggressive grit (around 1k). I'm picky on how sharp my knife should be before work and I can go a week easy just touching up on a felt strop daily. I love that about PM steel.

I use Jon's diamond stone set which are wonderful so I never have a real struggle sharpening. I would not want to try to establish a new bevel with a King stone though...

It's a great knife. Would I recommend chasing knives just because of the steel alone? Not ever. I think there are a lot of really great options out there in stainless. 90% of the folks out would likely be just as blown away by the performance & retention of a Ginga or SIH knife.
Click to expand...

Reading your post kinda makes me regret selling mine.
 
I have one of CKTG Kono ZDP-189 (solid) from a few years ago, bought on B/S/T, to try the steel ... no expert but once I used Jon/JKI diamond stones on it things were very straight forward and the blade really came to life. Will have to look into HAP40 though ...

Here it is with the 'new shoes' that Ian Haburn just put on it ...



I really love it and the edge lasts and lasts and lasts ... but hey I have too many gyutos and just a home cook so ...
 
I did not know that the Kohetsu Hap40 came with a Octagon handle. Looks like a different grind too much thinner behind the edge than the western handle versions I have seen.
 
To me all the super tough steels (high alloy usually) are really better suited to utility blades which had to cut stuff that is really abrasive and other elements than intended come to the contact with blade. I find that 'medium alloy' steels (super blue, A2, D2, etc) offer plenty edge holding in a kitchen(I am not a chef, just a home user though). For me the best is a ballance in edge holding and ease of sharpening. I have HAP40 Delica and it really holds edge well - it is my utility blade in workshop, but I am not sure I would want a kitchen knife in that steel (I did not try, so this is just a guess).
 
I have sharpened two of the western handle Hap40. I find that they take a nice edge on the stones. Not hard to sharpen. Have not used one thought the grind was just OK. Kind of like the Akifusa great steel properties the SRS-15 is a more stain resistant than the Hap40.

This wa looks like a better knife & is a little cheaper. Seems like his M390 gyuto's did not fly they were made in the USA. The Kohetsu are made in Japan. Have used a Kohetsu Aogami Super 270mm. Nice knife.
 
Mine just came - when it comes to fit, finish, OOB sharpness and comfort of the handle the Sakai Yusuke is definitely better. Cutting is pleasant. We will see how the steel will behave.
 
how does hap40 kohetsu or gihei feel on stones? i only have a small pocket knife made of stainless clad hap40 and while it doesnt feel good, it was still surprisingly very easy to sharpen.

i care more about 'feel' in steel than i do retention these days. and i'm just not a fan of powdered steels cause they feel mechanical and not organic. my stainless of choice would still be ginsanko as that is the closest in feel to carbon i've come across.
 
Would white carbon #1 sharpened on a Gesshin 4K be organic enough:D

Ginsanko is a simple steel without added alloy just carbon & chrom. Sometimes less is more & just plain old works good.

I've been a carbon junkie so long, even have Japanese carbon garden tools, favorite ice carving chisels where carbon that picked up in Japan during competition. I like the powder steels do they feel the same on the stones as white steel. Not really carbon is a joy to sharpen even old blades can be made razor sharp. From what I read about powder steels & how they were hard to sharpen, was surprised SKD & SRS15 easy to raise a burr & take it off in my experience.

Since most are san mai blades would like to see some thick spines with thin grinds a little rougher hand forged look & feel to go with the powder core steel:whistling:
 
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