Pans

[TheCaptain]

I found a German seller on eBay selling these for a reasonable price and shipping WW. Will get a 20cm small one to try and get back here with my impression!

Links?

 

[Choppin]

Links?

Link below. It’s the cheapest seller I found for Turk pans (that ships worldwide). Non-EU customers get VAT deducted from the price (just buy it and the seller will refund the VAT). European customers might find something better at Amazon UK and DE (Germany).

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/151028183172

Several sizes available through the link. Take a look at the other items from this seller - he also has the ridged-pattern pan that Matus mentioned, as well as a version with taller sides.

I will let you know how it works out once I get mine.

 

[TheCaptain]

Thanks for the link! Can't wait to hear your thoughts.

 

[phoosty]

Quick question on the Spring USA pans: are the dimensions listed the upper or lower diameter?

 

[Matus]

Quick question on the Spring USA pans: are the dimensions listed the upper or lower diameter?

Size of the pan is to my knowledge always the upper (lid) size. BTW I have also the Spring pan in 28 cm size. It is a really nice pan, but needs a lot of heat on the (tall) sides, otherwise the bottom it will bow-out - our did. It dances around on our glass-top stove, but still cooks reasonably well. On gas this would not be a problem.

One general comment - I have come to an impression, that the taller/thicker the walls of an iron pan are, the higher the probabilitiy that the bottom will not remain flat - at least on a glass-top stove. This is most probably because the taller & thicker the walls are, the colder they will remain when cooking and will thus not expand as much as the bottom. What seems to help is to have the dimater of the heated area in the stoove larger than the bottom of the pan, so the sides got more heat. Again - this would not really be a problem on a decent gas stove.

 

[Devon_Steven]

One general comment - I have come to an impression, that the taller/thicker the walls of an iron pan are, the higher the probabilitiy that the bottom will not remain flat - at least on a glass-top stove. This is most probably because the taller & thicker the walls are, the colder they will remain when cooking and will thus not expand as much as the bottom. What seems to help is to have the dimater of the heated area in the stoove larger than the bottom of the pan, so the sides got more heat. Again - this would not really be a problem on a decent gas stove.

Matus,

Thanks for these insights (the one quoted and an earlier one above).

I have 2 De Buyer Carbone Plus Round Frying Pans at 32cm and 24cm and use these on an induction top. The larger of these pans has deformed a little, although note from De Buyer's FAQs (https://www.debuyer.com/en/faq) that the pans are slightly convex


Why is my iron pan curved?

All de Buyer iron pans have a slightly convexly curved bottom to guarantee a great stability when they are used on powerful heating sources (especially on induction). This convex curve prevents pans from deforming and doesn’t spoil their cooking properties.

Induction hobs showing an exceptional heating performance, when using an iron pan, it is necessary to:

- cook at a medium temperature,
- avoid using the powerboost function,
- avoid over-heating your iron pan while it is empty.

These precautions are essential for pans from 26cm of diameter to avoid deformation.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that my 32cm De Buyer has more convexing that it did to begin with (although it still works well enough). Even with the largest of four induction 'burners' the outer edges of the pan are not getting as hot as the centre.

Following Matus's info in this thread, I have just ordered a Turk 28cm (model no. 65228) from here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000KKLZHC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Let's see if this one stays flat like Matus's (also, this one should fit in the oven - my De Buyer 32cm is just too big for that!).

 

[Matus]

Devon, I hope that you will like the Turk pan. I will be curios to hear whether it will remain as flat as our 24cm version of it.

 

[Devon_Steven]

Devon, I hope that you will like the Turk pan. I will be curios to hear whether it will remain as flat as our 24cm version of it.

Hopefully it will

I'm also interested to see how the seasoning goes with the Turk. My two Carbone Plus pans need to have the seasoning maintained as small areas of seasoning often flake off. This happens more so with the larger pan and - in particular - if I try to cook liquid (other than oil). It's okay if I deglaze the pan and quickly make a sauce, but any extended contact with liquid will often lead to flaking.

Another poster in another thread mentioned that this flaking may be due to the surface of the steel pans being more polished in comparison to cast iron, meaning that the seasoning doesn't have such a textured surface to cling on to. To test this theory, I roughed-up the surface (with 240 grit wet and dry) of my carbone pans and re-seasoned them to see if things improved. Things did improve, to some extent anyway - especially in the 24cm one.

If I have a bad flaking experience in the future, I might remove the seasoning again and try roughing them up with a lower grit paper before re-seasoning again...


Steven

 

[Ryndunk]

Carbon steel is the way to go. I have de buyer pans at the house, love them. At the restaurant I buy Matfer Bourgeat carbon pans. Very affordable, cook wonderfully. Matfers are a bit more shallow but have a slightly larger cooking surface. You won't be disappointed with either.

 

[tripleq]

Hopefully it will

I'm also interested to see how the seasoning goes with the Turk. My two Carbone Plus pans need to have the seasoning maintained as small areas of seasoning often flake off. This happens more so with the larger pan and - in particular - if I try to cook liquid (other than oil). It's okay if I deglaze the pan and quickly make a sauce, but any extended contact with liquid will often lead to flaking.

Another poster in another thread mentioned that this flaking may be due to the surface of the steel pans being more polished in comparison to cast iron, meaning that the seasoning doesn't have such a textured surface to cling on to. To test this theory, I roughed-up the surface (with 240 grit wet and dry) of my carbone pans and re-seasoned them to see if things improved. Things did improve, to some extent anyway - especially in the 24cm one.

If I have a bad flaking experience in the future, I might remove the seasoning again and try roughing them up with a lower grit paper before re-seasoning again...


Steven

Hey Steven. I've had this issue of flaking a few times with different pans and woks. In my case I found the root cause was initially seasoning with too much oil. When I re-seasoned using much thinner coats the issue disappeared. As for this thread and the Turk pan... yet another thing to try...

 

[HRC_64]

Agree with tripleq on the seasoning issue.

lots of people try to season steel like iron.
do things like bake the pan with oil for 1 hr.

cast iron is more porous than steel
its like a stone that is soaker vs splash and go.

absolutely wrong to treat them the same--
steel has its own properties.

steel is easy to season, btw.
takes <30 min

After reading amazon reviews/complaints,
its clear that user error is often a big factor.

 

[orangehero]

I’m super impressed with the Spring USA pans. They actually have smoother bottoms than debuyer. No need to season them either. Plus their induction comparable. Also they have s nice shape. Conical sides but taller than debyuer. No rivets either.

I recently picked a Spring USA pan and it is very high quality only I am not sure about the powder-coated handle and some kind of coating both outside and inside the pan. Would rather if it was all raw steel.

lots of people try to season steel like iron.
do things like bake the pan with oil for 1 hr.

cast iron is more porous than steel
its like a stone that is soaker vs splash and go.

absolutely wrong to treat them the same--
steel has its own properties.

steel is easy to season, btw.
takes <30 min

After reading amazon reviews/complaints,
its clear that user error is often a big factor.

What is the best way to season steel?

Does anyone have experience with Darto pans?

https://www.darto.org/us/

 

[Matus]

I am no expert on seasoning of steel pans, but what worked best for me was to first just warm up the pan, put a little linseed oil on a paper towel and just make the pan greasy and wipe all the oil you can wipe. The heat it up and let the oil burn away (the surface will become mat). Repeat the process a few times, but leave the pan to cool down in between.

What I also do often is after using the pan I would scrubbed it under hot water with a steel wool sponge, dry with a paper towel and bring it up to the smoking point, so the thin layer of fat left in the pan would be carburised. That seems to bring a rather stable seasoning over time.

 

[niwaki-boy]

@orangehero.. I have Dartos and love them! They are pressed so there’s no rivets and are very heavy duty. First thing you want to do is get the manufacturing oils off the pan with a solvent like lacquer thinner then go to seasoning. Gett'm up to about 500 after wiping a couple thin coats of oil and you’re good to go. Using them will further help but right away eggs were slipping around easily. Only downside.. I wish they had one size larger. I used peanut and canola also heard that lecithin is good. There’s a video on their site that shows their seasoning process. Also Nicolas is very responsive to email.

 

[tripleq]

I am no expert on seasoning of steel pans, but what worked best for me was to first just warm up the pan, put a little linseed oil on a paper towel and just make the pan greasy and wipe all the oil you can wipe. The heat it up and let the oil burn away (the surface will become mat). Repeat the process a few times, but leave the pan to cool down in between.

What I also do often is after using the pan I would scrubbed it under hot water with a steel wool sponge, dry with a paper towel and bring it up to the smoking point, so the thin layer of fat left in the pan would be carburised. That seems to bring a rather stable seasoning over time.

This is pretty much it. Good seasoning is about applying a **very thin** layer of oil and then heating it to the oil smoke point. This releases free radicals and causes the oil to polymerize. I've had the best results using flaxseed or peanut oil and repeating 5-7 times. If you're having problems with seasoning it is usually best to clean everything off the pan before starting again. Popular cleaning techniques include placing the pan inside an oven on a cleaning cycle, oven cleaning sprays and electrolysis. Electrolysis is particularly effective on cast iron.

 

[DamageInc]

salt potatoskin oil

 

[HRC_64]

salt potatoskin oil

yes, this releases some acids in the skins.


START
+++++

1) The acid to cleans the pan, and acts like a primer for paint.

2) then you put down the seasoning oils.

REMEMBER:
steel is not porous like iron,
so this has to be VERY THIN oil layers.

3) the step everyone misses is to remove oil impurities.
you do this by a quick rinse (the water should dance...)
let it dance, then chuck it out. (spoonful/s not litres)


4) wipe it dry, wipe new oil.

5) repeat the cycle.
Maybe its 3 minutes per cycle x 5 -7 times.

do not skip this step.

the impurities will float out in the water
(think clarifying butter).

++++++++

END


if you ever loose seasoning, just repeat this.

TLDR:

Failure modes:

1) start with dirty steel. solve problem by using a cleaning step.
2) leaving burned oil impurities. solve this by method above
3) treating pan like a soaking stone(iron), not splash and go (steel). solve this by method above

If you leave the impurities in,
they will build up and be gummy,
leading to trapping more oil, too thick layers
(not polymerized fully...catches food...etc)

 

[HRC_64]

Remove any such impurties at a later stage also,
should they build up from cooking/normal use
(eg, from cooking or searing in smoking oil)

Do this with BLUE scoth-brite pad+water (no soap)
Rinse clean water, wipe new oil (thin layer)
Heat once (maybe) or just store with thin oil layer to protect.
(then heat up next time @ preheat, and wipe just before cooking)

 

[Choppin]

I received a Turk pan this week and got to season it and cook a bit. It’s not the criss-crossed one Matus mentioned - I also ordered that one but haven’t received it yet. It’s the one-piece, forged one, size 20cm: http://www.turk-metall.de/cms/index..._id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26&lang=en

So far I really like it... The texture is rougher than carbon steel, but smoother, with a tighter grain compared to cast iron. Looks like kurouchi a bit (see pic). I found it a bit easier to season than cast iron - after 4 rounds in the oven I got a decent seasoning and had no sticking issues when searing some veggies. Heats up as fast as carbon steel and cleans up easily.

I can’t comment on seasoning stability yet, but given the texture I expect it to be somewhere between CI and CS.

One thing that surprised me was the weight. It actually weights less than De Buyer carbon steel pans of same size (this applies to all sizes, just compare the link above with the info at De Buyer’s website). Yet it has similar thickness from what I can tell. Probably construction and forging process have something to do with it...

I’ll probably get it in other sizes. Seems like a great alternative if you are looking for a CI/CS pan. I liked the one-piece, rivetless construction, weight, overall feel and handmade factor.

 

[Matus]

That pan looks really nice. I will be curios to hear how does it compare to the other Turk pan (the one with ridges). The surface ineed looks like it was left like that after forging. It makes me wonder whether these pans get some sort of 'heat treatment' after forging (not necessarily quenching for higher hardness though )


May I ask how is the flatness of the pan? Would it work on 'standard' glass-top stoove?

 

[Choppin]

Matus - I will make sure to make a comparison between both pans when the ridged one arrives. Shouldn’t take long.

About flatness - when I lay the pan on my countertop and press around the rim, it does show some movement. So the bottom is apparently not completely flat. It’s quite subtle - I didn’t notice it when using on my gas stove and some of my vintage CI have a similar degree of movement. But on a glass stove it might be an issue.

 

[Matus]

Thank you Choppin. A not 100% flat bottom is something I kind off expected with a forged pan. I am looking forward to your comparison.

 

[Choppin]

You are welcome Matus. Please keep in mind that I have never used a glass stove, so I have no idea how flat the pan would have be to work well (I just assumed 100%). It is only slightly uneven, like I said I didn’t even notice when cooking on my gas stove. Nothing too expressive.

 

[Devon_Steven]

I also got my Turk recently.

Pics here:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/139117223@N03/2cj79h

Nice pan - nowhere near as bad fit and finish as the one pictured in the Amazon listing. Used some wet and dry sandpaper to polish the weld a bit but everything else was nice and smooth.

Noticably lighter than the De Buyer pans I have.

Took a nice smooth seasoning with about 8 applications of wiped-on mineral oil on the hob top. First use was some breaded salmon tonight - not exactly a sticky meal but I got the impression that the pan will perform very well. Will report back on egg-performance tomorrow.

One thing I noticed, the handle got quite a bit hotter than the De Buyer handles when seasoning (but that's longer high heat than normal applications).

Finally, the warping situation... you will see before and after pics in my album... there has been a slight concaving after the seasoning, but minimal, and performance is not affected.

In the before, pic, you can see that the pan is manufactured with a concave/convexing (depending on which way up you are looking at the pan); this is consistent with De Buyer who state that they build their frying pans with a concaving to add to the robustness.

I am cooking on a glass top but using induction heat, so the physical contact with the glass is not critical for me.


Best wishes
Steven

 

[Devon_Steven]

Hey Steven. I've had this issue of flaking a few times with different pans and woks. In my case I found the root cause was initially seasoning with too much oil. When I re-seasoned using much thinner coats the issue disappeared. As for this thread and the Turk pan... yet another thing to try...

Triple,

For some time I've been wiping the seasoning oil on with a cloth, rather than pouring and then wiping. That may have improved things. I also think that just the pans getting more and more use helps the seasoning to become more resilient. I always apply a hot oil wipe or two or three before putting the pan back on the shelf.


Steven

 

[Matus]

Thanks for reporting on your new pan Steven. I have actually never checked whether my Turk pan has some slight concavity to its bottom (which would explain why it feels sitting dead flat on the stove).

I completely second your approach of building and sustaining the seasoning. I do it in a very similar way and it works very well for me too.

 

[Choppin]

Thank’s Steven. I usually season in the over to avoid warping. Heating an empty pan for longer that a few minutes usually doesn’t end well for me.

 

[Matus]

Thank’s Steven. I usually season in the over to avoid warping. Heating an empty pan for longer that a few minutes usually doesn’t end well for me.

It escapes me why I never came to the idea of seasoning pan in the oven. Sounds like a great idea. Is 270 degrees Celsius enough? That is as far as our oven goes.

 

[Paraffin]

It escapes me why I never came to the idea of seasoning pan in the oven. Sounds like a great idea. Is 270 degrees Celsius enough? That is as far as our oven goes.

I season pans in the oven, usually for about 45 minutes, although 30 is probably enough.

For a temperature setting, I think the main idea is to stay far enough below the smoke point of whatever oil you're using. This avoids a bitter taste in the seasoning (and a lot of smoke in the oven!). I season pans at 400 F / 232 C for peanut oil, where the smoke point is 450 F / 232 C.

 

[Obsidiank]

The main idea is for oil polymerization which occurs above the smoke point. You’re supposed to season above the smoke point. However, I will say it’s a crapshoot seasoning in the oven and I’ve gone back to the tried and true salt/potato peel method.

I season pans in the oven, usually for about 45 minutes, although 30 is probably enough.

For a temperature setting, I think the main idea is to stay far enough below the smoke point of whatever oil you're using. This avoids a bitter taste in the seasoning (and a lot of smoke in the oven!). I season pans at 400 F / 232 C for peanut oil, where the smoke point is 450 F / 232 C.