Polishing finish definitions+photo examples thread

[labor of love]

It leaves a much more uniform finish on iron cladding. Produces a pretty nice edge as well.

Lookin pretty tight. Nice even finish.

 

[XooMG]

Xoom, so king 800 produces a dark contrasty finish? Labor of love gives me crap cause I don't polish any of my bevels, but if I can get a dark finish i may have to pick one up (king800)

I would personally call it a dark contrasty finish, but don't trust my opinions too much.

I decided to just do a really quick and dirty lineup to give a reasonable impression of the finish contrasts of a few stones, but my lighting was a bit too gentle so it did not highlight all the details, and I didn't even maintain good focus or wipe dust. Bah. Even so, maybe some of these pics will demonstrate.

Note: these are not thoroughly worked finishes and are done in sequence, so obviously there is a big midgrit (post-800) gap and there will be stray scratches peeking out in certain light, which I failed to capture effectively

King 800

I am not the biggest fan of the finish because it feels draggy, like thousands of tiny suction cups going through tougher stuff. If I am leaving something close to that level, I usually try two things to make it more smooth:

King 800 and some autosol (or flitz or mothers or whatever):

It reveals some of the scratches, reduces the contrast a tiny bit, and makes the core a little shinier. Some oily smudges in the photo, sorry.

King 800 and some sponge abrasives (3m microfine), followed by autosol:

This actually can reveal more scratches and reduces the contrast, but gives the whole bevel a softer glow and a silkier feeling when cutting.

Baby Hakka:

Fine muddy stone that gets me a bit more contrast and a lighter edge, and when done well can be pretty consistent.

Uchigumori fingerstone:

Gets me in the same neighborhood as the hakka but is easier to get a more consistent finish when working with more convexed or uneven bevels. I was a bit rushed and inconsistent. These particular fingerstones I have also scratch the core less, so if the edge is brought up to a mirror, these will allow you to mostly maintain that, unlike my hakka.

Shiro suita, sponge abrasives (microfine and trizact), and autosol:

This is what I like as a working polish for things that benefit from a smooth finish, but it is not the highest contrast.

Sorry I didn't include a bunch more rocks, but hopefully someone finds some of this useful.

As for finishes and cutting...a convex bevel (not full height) used for harder ingredients like potatoes, carrots, and the like is best served by a semi-mirror finish. I think for spongy mushrooms, such a finish may be less ideal than a coarser one, though I think a linear scratch pattern like a belt finish with a quick buff across the peaks may be better than an etched/blasted finish or a random-scratch coarse kasumi. For full-height finishes or very flat, thin bevels, I am still uncertain what I like, but the benefits of a glossy mirror polish are undermined when the bevel faces form a more acute (less separation) angle, and when the edge is thicker.

Hopefully I am not arrogating to myself unqualified authority.

 

[zetieum]

I would personally call it a dark contrasty finish, but don't trust my opinions too much.

I decided to just do a really quick and dirty lineup to give a reasonable impression of the finish contrasts of a few stones, but my lighting was a bit too gentle so it did not highlight all the details, and I didn't even maintain good focus or wipe dust. Bah. Even so, maybe some of these pics will demonstrate.

Note: these are not thoroughly worked finishes and are done in sequence, so obviously there is a big midgrit (post-800) gap and there will be stray scratches peeking out in certain light, which I failed to capture effectively

Sorry I didn't include a bunch more rocks, but hopefully someone finds some of this useful.

As for finishes and cutting...a convex bevel (not full height) used for harder ingredients like potatoes, carrots, and the like is best served by a semi-mirror finish. I think for spongy mushrooms, such a finish may be less ideal than a coarser one, though I think a linear scratch pattern like a belt finish with a quick buff across the peaks may be better than an etched/blasted finish or a random-scratch coarse kasumi. For full-height finishes or very flat, thin bevels, I am still uncertain what I like, but the benefits of a glossy mirror polish are undermined when the bevel faces form a more acute (less separation) angle, and when the edge is thicker.

Hopefully I am not arrogating to myself unqualified authority.

Fantastic post!!! Extremely informative and with beautiful example. Thanks for this great contribution! :goodpost:

 

[XooMG]

Apologies for spamming the thread, but I was not totally comfortable with the photos I posted earlier and wanted to retake a few with harder light, to show the differences in much greater detail. Sadly I didn't have much time to redo all the finishes I did above, but I did retake a few.

Old "working finish", as above:

A bit more scratch detail, also with a bit more information about reflectivity.

King 800:

A lot more detail, showing how dark and matte the finish is, along with the stray scratches that generally come with the coarse stones (can be reduced but hard to eliminate)

King 800, 3M microfine sponge, and autosol:

Also more detail where it counts, showing the reduced contrast but smoother and shinier finish.

And I mentioned the fingerstones I have not really affecting the core steel, so I took the core steel up to a rough mirror (obviously not removing lower grit scratches completely), and quickly gave it another go.

Uchigumori fingerstone:

Hope those are more useful than the pics I showed earlier. Sorry I did not include more diverse stones as well...time does not really permit at the moment.

 

[foody518]

@XooMG looks fantastic

 

[labor of love]

Big thanks to xoomg for breathing life into this thread.

 

[panda]

ditto, thanks for addressing the performance aspect not just the looks. people seem to completely ignore that part which is the only function i care about.

 

[Krassi]

@XooMG
Very cool! thats the reason why we are here ) !
Also i love linear scratch patterns with Medium Grain Jnat slurry polishing (with a microfiber cloth and lots of preasure).. Works good on 210mm+ Gyutos.
Thanks for sharing those nice pictures, seeya, daniel!

 

[XooMG]

Fantastic post!!! Extremely informative and with beautiful example. Thanks for this great contribution! :goodpost:

@XooMG looks fantastic

Big thanks to xoomg for breathing life into this thread.

Thanks for the kind words. I get nervous posting even these admittedly rushed examples.

ditto, thanks for addressing the performance aspect not just the looks. people seem to completely ignore that part which is the only function i care about.

I think it's a worthwhile discussion. I recall at one time thinking the JNS 800 would provide me all the polishing I need for practical cutters, and then disliking the cutting feel in a bunch of stuff. I would like to try some more linear coarse finishes with a bit of burnishing, to see how they behave.

@XooMG
Very cool! thats the reason why we are here ) !
Also i love linear scratch patterns with Medium Grain Jnat slurry polishing (with a microfiber cloth and lots of preasure).. Works good on 210mm+ Gyutos.
Thanks for sharing those nice pictures, seeya, daniel!

Thanks. I will probably take some slurry from uchigumori, white suita, or hakka, and try to do a wipe down on the last finish I posted, to see if it can smooth the cladding finish a little. Synthetic abrasives will do the trick, but may also undo the core steel polish. What do you use midgrit slurry after?

 

[XooMG]

Uchigumori slurry wipedown revealed a few more scratches, and reduced the darkness of the cladding a little, and my photo is not exactly the same position and lighting as before, but it should give a nice idea about the kind of finish. As mentioned before, coarser scratches are to be expected since I didn't polish thoroughly after the 800 grit.

 

[Marek07]

XooMG - thanks for all your posts. Great work, descriptions & photos. I need a lot more experience and I may attempt some of that polishing.

 

[labor of love]

XooMG - thanks for all your posts. Great work, descriptions & photos. I need a lot more experience and I may attempt some of that polishing.

I'm definitely going to play around w king 800 finish+micro pads.

 

[foody518]

Aoto slurry on glazed over white Thai Binsui (really worked down mud). Overcast day flatters this a bit, smooths out the scratches XD
Can't comment on progression this time around since the knife was actually at a higher grit finish before this...
Wide bevel is sharpened without convexing (beta-togi?)
Cladding is smooth to touch; finish is neither super dark like it seems the King 800 gives, nor a more muted white-ish like some of my higher grit stones make it
Very small scratches visible on the cladding, slightly more visible scratch pattern on the core steel. Core steel is a (subjectively) pretty foggy/hazy mirror (reflection of finger on edge looks as if behind a thick fog)
Edge (need to use it more) feels fairly crisp and a bit grabby.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YMwd9dBQ6cha8J-XVQNUxiByI1PZzflhPA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-EUzJMXQ93SSklj_H4T9xGVk8GUfViwdGA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ul8IkLHUNTkIUixGWxvhghqcEcwUoskedw/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZfkZnV_ccQUSgjsdjd60w3aXDbwVj6DIXQ/view?usp=sharing

 

[XooMG]

Aoto slurry on glazed over white Thai Binsui (really worked down mud). Overcast day flatters this a bit, smooths out the scratches XD
Can't comment on progression this time around since the knife was actually at a higher grit finish before this...
Wide bevel is sharpened without convexing (beta-togi?)
Cladding is smooth to touch; finish is neither super dark like it seems the King 800 gives, nor a more muted white-ish like some of my higher grit stones make it
Very small scratches visible on the cladding, slightly more visible scratch pattern on the core steel. Core steel is a (subjectively) pretty foggy/hazy mirror (reflection of finger on edge looks as if behind a thick fog)
Edge (need to use it more) feels fairly crisp and a bit grabby.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YMwd9dBQ6cha8J-XVQNUxiByI1PZzflhPA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-EUzJMXQ93SSklj_H4T9xGVk8GUfViwdGA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ul8IkLHUNTkIUixGWxvhghqcEcwUoskedw/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZfkZnV_ccQUSgjsdjd60w3aXDbwVj6DIXQ/view?usp=sharing

Those pics look great. I should really try to squeeze in a binsui finish sometime. In fact, I may take my knife back to binsui to clean up some of the coarse scratches...hmm...

 

[Badgertooth]

Aoto slurry on glazed over white Thai Binsui (really worked down mud). Overcast day flatters this a bit, smooths out the scratches XD
Can't comment on progression this time around since the knife was actually at a higher grit finish before this...
Wide bevel is sharpened without convexing (beta-togi?)
Cladding is smooth to touch; finish is neither super dark like it seems the King 800 gives, nor a more muted white-ish like some of my higher grit stones make it
Very small scratches visible on the cladding, slightly more visible scratch pattern on the core steel. Core steel is a (subjectively) pretty foggy/hazy mirror (reflection of finger on edge looks as if behind a thick fog)
Edge (need to use it more) feels fairly crisp and a bit grabby.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YMwd9dBQ6cha8J-XVQNUxiByI1PZzflhPA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-EUzJMXQ93SSklj_H4T9xGVk8GUfViwdGA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ul8IkLHUNTkIUixGWxvhghqcEcwUoskedw/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZfkZnV_ccQUSgjsdjd60w3aXDbwVj6DIXQ/view?usp=sharing

Awesome. What knife is that?

 

[Badgertooth]

My tshirt reflected on stainless TF Maboroshi cladding with a combination of Tsushima slurry on a very fine and smooth shou Honyama



Ignore the the patchy grind issues to the left of the shiny bits!

 

[foody518]

@Badgertooth nice! Wow, that makes me want to pull out my Tsushima again, experiment with different mixes. Dunno if I have a J-nat that will mirror finish without crazy streaking though, hmmm

Mine was a Moritaka ordered direct from them. I suppose by the time I work my way up the knife a bit more I'll know whether the low spots at the heel and tip are overgrinds . Yesterday's session was actually a pleasant surprise for me. The geometry of my previous practice knife is so bad that through all the curves and faceting, couldn't tell the aoto on binsui finish could actually look so good. But this being a flat(?) grind through wide bevel eliminates a lot of that. Then you have that neat quality the binsui seems to impart on the edge

 

[aboynamedsuita]

@foodie that's the AS moritaka, correct? Yours has much nicer and even KU than mine (got a few years ago in Canada) which has some bare spots from hammer marks… grind seems okay so far though.

 

[v647c]

Hey guys, I posted this pic in another thread and Badgertooth suggested I post it here. http://imgur.com/a/hU8UA
This yanagiba was sharped on an old Nakayama I inherited. Usually don't have time for this stone because it's super slow.. There isn't much of it left too. http://imgur.com/a/fhnG8

As a polisher I'm not on the level of some people I've seen on here. There are some imperfections which fortunately can't be felt during use. Although I've been sharpening and polising for some time now, I pretty much only go for Kasumi finish on yanagiba. I've never used finger stones (not even sure how).

In terms of performance, there will be a definitely be a noticeable effect between say, a 4000 grit finish and a reflective kasumi finish when using a yanagiba. However, for a gyuto that gets smashed daily I don't think it matters too much. Many people have said to me that a finish with a fine visible scratch pattern is best for separation. Though in my experience, while there might be marginally less of a sticky feeling, the friction is noticable when slicing. So I would still choose a finer polish for delicate work and slicing, if I had the time for it.

 

[foody518]

@aboynamedsuita yep! Received around Dec 2015 Any bare spots are my accidental abrading. And I'm watching one tiny part of the edge near a tip to make sure it continues to be part of the bevel XD

@v647c nice work!

 

[nepastovus]

Here's another T-F with sandpaper finish

 

[slobound]

Great info on this post

 

[Choppin]

Since this was brought back to life - if my main goal is to darken the cladding, what would be a good progression/method based on what you guys have tried? I was thinking King 800 or JNS 800 but what stones following up? Or just sandpaper after that?

 

[dwalker]

Sand paper will not give you a lot of contrast. As progression goes, i did a reasonable progression up to a Kitayama 8k and then finished on a Renge Suita for this particular knife. I find going up to a fine grit synthetic really lets you see exactly what your finisher is doing.

 

[Choppin]

@dwalker Thank's. What did you use before the 8k and Suita? Sorry if this was already mentioned

 

[geoff_nocon]

Polishing this kato i didnt use sandpaper. I used stones on the whole blade face. Starting with shapton 1k then straight to 8k. Then fingerstones to even things out. Then used an ohira suita just on the hagane to mellow the mirror finish a bit the 8k was too mirror for my liking

 

[GorillaGrunt]

(sorry old pic)

What is this Zakuri?

 

[Choppin]

Polishing this kato i didnt use sandpaper. I used stones on the whole blade face. Starting with shapton 1k then straight to 8k. Then fingerstones to even things out. Then used an ohira suita just on the hagane to mellow the mirror finish a bit the 8k was too mirror for my liking

Interesting. Great results you got there.

@XooMG - what did you use on that Zakuri? That's the kind of dark polish on the cladding I'm after

 

[dwalker]

@dwalker Thank's. What did you use before the 8k and Suita? Sorry if this was already mentioned

It went something like atoma 140, shapton glass 500, king deluxe 1k, white binsui, blue aoto, Uchi, Kitayama 8k, Aka renege suita.

 

[dwalker]

These are same progression except finishing on the aoto.