Sakai Yusuke 210 Wa-Gyuto Review
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shankster
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Thanks for the replies.Another noob question.Would this type of edge be practical for a busy production kitchen on crappy poly boards or should I just stick with the 50/50 edge?My Kono cuts like a dream, so no complaints,just curious..
racineboxer
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I've had a 240 SS Yusuke for a few months and I'm a big fan of it. Fit and finish is flawless and the knife is super thin (even though mines not the super thin the original poster started this tread about). Glad to hear it getting some favorable reviews to the Kono because it came down to the Yusuke or the Kono HD and I went for the true stainless (I wasn't happy with the semi-stainless of my carbonext, my personal preference is to true stainless for convenience). I took the yusuke over to Salty's and it did pretty good on the sticky potato test. It takes a while to get use to a knife this thin, I'm not sure I could imagine going with an even thinner model. I bought a 210 Yoshihiro because I wanted something little thicker and has a studier more robust feel to it. But these are my 2 favorite knives out of the 6-7 I've bought and can compare them to.
If you're happy with your edge performance, maybe stick with that but as far as practicality, it really depends on the user(s). If you're using the knife for its intended purpose, you shouldn't have any problems.
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yeah...after looking at that yusuke every day since this thread started i decided to pull the trigger on one as well. i just love the handle size. a 210 petty though. with an ebony handle. it takes around a month to make. cant wait!
mpukas
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Check out Fred's Cutlery Forum on Foodie Forums - there's a thread under the sharpening section about sharpening one side of a gyuto. KC is a big advocate of this. One of the main reasons he does this is to save time when sharpening since he only sharpens one side instead of two.
Another aspect of this type of 100/0 edge is when slicing an item w/ the back (left) side of the blade against the main ody of the item, the edge is perfectly in line w/ the cutting plane. The knife will have to be rotated slightly to the right to get the back side of the knife perfectly vertical, but thte thought is that this will give better, thinner, more even slices.
IMHO, sure you can use an edge like this in a commercial kitchen on poly boards, but you'll have to adjust you're technique to avoid damaging the fragile edge. Again IMHO, if your'e in a western kitchen making western food, there's no need for an edge like this. A 50/50 edge is plenty sharp and will have better durability for western kitchen food & tasks.
mpukas
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Regarding steering, here's my take on it at the moment - it's been said of yanagiba and other asymetrically sharpened knives, by expereinced folks here and other places and from my own expereinces w/ 99/1 edges, to use a loose grip and let the knife do the work. With a yanagi the technique is ALWAYS a slicing motion. A slicing motion is more efficient at cutting than a push/chopping motion. Often when using a gyuto less slicing motion is used and more downward pushing/chopping force is used. When downward force is aplied to an asymetrical blade, by it's geometrical nature, it will steer. When used in a slicing motion and allowed to create it's own path through the item being cut, it will follow the direction given to it.
Am I on track with this thought? Cheers! mpp
Am I on track with this thought? Cheers! mpp
I think a couple of distinctions need to be made here.
1. You can still sharpen at whatever angle you choose. KC sharpens at very low angles. (Utterly ridiculous, if you ask me.) You can sharpen 50:50 at 7 deg per side and you will have to alter your technique there as well.
2. The part that ends up more fragile is the area behind the edge which will end up thinner than it would in a 50:50 blade. How fragile? That depends on your bevel angles and the thickness of your knife to begin with. If you choose angles such that the area behind your edge is thinner, you will get deformation further behind the edge for the same amount of force applied. I'm pretty sure I can make any cut short of chopping bones, frozen items and prying with my 99:1 blades.
mpukas makes some good points but the generalization is taken way too far.
The effect of slicing vs chopping is definitely true. I'd say it's more because the asymmetry is greater where the knife is thickest and the effect is greater the deeper it is in the object. Since the tip is thinner and thus less asymmetric and since the tip is finishing the cut at it's deepest point in the object, you will get less steering with a slicing cut.
I have been doing a gradual gravitation to asymmetry by using a fairly low angle on the right side and only deburring on the left at a higher angle. I started doing this with my folders years ago out of ignorance. I have to switch sides now and then to even out the bevel a little.
Slainte,
rj
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I did the same to a few western knives with 50/50 edges, though the blades were never symmetric - mostly left convex and right more or less flat. The progressive process has the advantage you may easily correct with a few strokes whenever steering/wedging issues araise. Till than you have greatly simplified your sharpening job: sharpening the right side, deburring the left one.
These asymmetric edges cause less friction and therefore the angle can be considerably reduced.
These asymmetric edges cause less friction and therefore the angle can be considerably reduced.
So I took the 210 thin Yusuke to the stones last night. OH MY GOD. The right side is 15 degree (face) and the left (back) is 11 degree.
Just a couple of passes with an Ohair Tomae then Ozuku Asagi then non-loaded leather strop on the edge pro. This knife is so sharp now the blade is sticky. As in, if you try to three finger feel how sharp it is, any contact with the edge will cut into your thumb print and "stick to your skin." I think its a combination of steel, thinness of blade and an asymmetrical sharpening. New experience for me.
I usually sharpen my knife 50/50 but i'm really impressed with the sharpness of this blade. Just when I didn't think I could get my knives any sharper! Poof a "sticky blade" shows up.
Just a couple of passes with an Ohair Tomae then Ozuku Asagi then non-loaded leather strop on the edge pro. This knife is so sharp now the blade is sticky. As in, if you try to three finger feel how sharp it is, any contact with the edge will cut into your thumb print and "stick to your skin." I think its a combination of steel, thinness of blade and an asymmetrical sharpening. New experience for me.
I usually sharpen my knife 50/50 but i'm really impressed with the sharpness of this blade. Just when I didn't think I could get my knives any sharper! Poof a "sticky blade" shows up.
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im sorry if im getting too off topic here but after a few messages with blueway i realized the grind has a convex face(right side) and flat back(left side). would this present a problem for leftys? steering issues? they also are prepared to make a left handed version for extra $$$. ive handled 3 kono lasers and a suisin inox and never noticed anything in the grind that effected my cutting just curious if this knife would be any different.
labor of love. I have the special thin 210 gyuto and the bevel is only about the width of a hair. You could change the orientation of the blade in minutes. I have two kono HD (210 Suji and 240 Kiritsuke). Yuke cuts equally as well. But my Yuke ony weighs 88grams. Even the 210 Suij weighs 97grams. Plus, sharening white steel is an absolute dream.
He's asking about the actual grind of the knife--its asymmetric geometry--not just the asymmetry of the edge bevel.
The grind is pretty flat. I mean the spine on the knife at the handle is 1.3mm :bigeek:
stevenStefano
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I have a Sakai Yusuke 210 petty and the grind is pretty symmetric, much more so than my Konosuke, and I am a lefty. I know comparing a 270 gyuto to a 210 petty is fairly meaningless but I really like how the Yusuke cuts anyway, food release is pretty good. If you really don't like how it cuts, give it a 90/10 left edge, and release should be a bit better. So basically I wouldn't worry about it
mpukas
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These knives are so thin, that the convexing is not dramatic. It is noticeable on my own knives that the front and backsides are different, but minimally - it's actually more noticeable on my 300 suji (which is even thinnner) than my 270 gyuto. I first started shaprening my suji 99/1, and did have steering issues when cutting very tall things like pineapple from top to botttom. But i've since gone 50/50 and only have minor steering if I'm not on it. I think you'd be ok w/ a standard version, but depending on how much the upcharge is, it may be worth considering - if for no other reason, you'll be getting a custom ground knife and possibly more attention paid to it.
The bevels they put on the knives are very, very thin (high angle), as Dennis mentioned. Still very sharp OOTB. I've put really low angles on mine at 50/50.
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Thanks Steven. A 210 Petty is what I ordered actually. But I inquired with blueway about their 270 swed gyuto. The gyuto is actually the one he said had the right side convex/left side flat grind.
How much did that cost? And where do you order this?
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Blueway Japan store on eBay just request a knife with an ebony handle. It's $50 extra
stevenStefano
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Something to add is that Keiichi got me a saya for my 210 petty for basically nothing. It wasn't designed for my knife but he got back to me in a couple of days after I asked him, he is great to deal with
you can always ask Keichi to talk to the makers of the knife to harden it a bit more for you.
that is great to know.
Seb
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Great to hear that Yusuke are now accepting custom orders to specially harden blades now. I enquired about this 1-2 years ago but was told the answer would probably be 'no'. Which is what led me to order an Ashi-Hamono Ginga stainless 240 Wa instead, with custom hardening to 61HRC: freaking awesome knife and steel in its own right, but my Yusuke (240 White#2 Wa) wins hands down in every department.
