Shigefusa

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I've owned both kitaeji and kasumi knives and found that the kitaeji was a bit less reactive than the kasumi. Other than that, I agree with YG420 - there is no difference in performance. Mine had custom handles so I can't comment on the relative size of the stock handles.

The cladding on the kasumi is a single layer of soft iron, though it may contain forging artifacts or clouds that can be revealed by judicious polishing. The kitaeji is made of multiple layers that are not etched, but polished to produce the contrast between the differing metals. So it's more than just polishing differences between the two variants - it's construction differences.
 
Pensacola Tiger said:
I've owned both kitaeji and kasumi knives and found that the kitaeji was a bit less reactive than the kasumi. Other than that, I agree with YG420 - there is no difference in performance. Mine had custom handles so I can't comment on the relative size of the stock handles.

The cladding on the kasumi is a single layer of soft iron, though it may contain forging artifacts or clouds that can be revealed by judicious polishing. The kitaeji is made of multiple layers that are not etched, but polished to produce the contrast between the differing metals. So it's more than just polishing differences between the two variants - it's construction differences.
Click to expand...

Ahh, thats what I was wondering and perhaps those multiple layers being thinner could contribute to better stability as far as warping (or whatever). I guess thats why the price is so much higher on the kitaeji with all of the additional forging steps.

Thanks,
 
jacko9 said:
Thanks, Is the Kasumi is a single clad layer and the Kitaeji a multiple later construction that could possibly effect the potential to warping? If it's the same construction and just etching/polishing differences then I would be looking for a Kasumi since I only want a kitchen knife not a display knife.

Thanks for the response,

jack
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Sounds very reasonable Jack
I have many in both versions and see no difference besides their looks.
I mean in feeling or cutting performance.
After all you should know that Shigefusa 's Kitaeji isn't that visible and can be shown by etching ( easy way) or fingerpolishing( more sophisticated way)
It's been said they maybe tend to bend, but.. I saw/ have/ use older Shigefusa versions as well, both in Kitaeji & Kasumi, don't face this problem.
Though Shigefusa used to be more interesting before.. The knives were much more sturdy, heavier and harder. Before his " western taste" adaptations.
From this point of view any older Kasumi beats any today's Kitaeji, IMHO, sure.
And what makes me [emoji51][emoji51][emoji51][emoji51][emoji51][emoji51]- Shigefusa 's retention and indestructible love to chip...
The older ( minus 30-40 years) were significantly more robust.
 
Andrey V said:
Sounds very reasonable Jack
I have many in both versions and see no difference besides their looks.
I mean in feeling or cutting performance.
After all you should know that Shigefusa 's Kitaeji isn't that visible and can be shown by etching ( easy way) or fingerpolishing( more sophisticated way)
It's been said they maybe tend to bend, but.. I saw/ have/ use older Shigefusa versions as well, both in Kitaeji & Kasumi, don't face this problem.
Though Shigefusa used to be more interesting before.. The knives were much more sturdy, heavier and harder. Before his " western taste" adaptations.
From this point of view any older Kasumi beats any today's Kitaeji, IMHO, sure.
And what makes me [emoji51][emoji51][emoji51][emoji51][emoji51][emoji51]- Shigefusa 's retention and indestructible love to chip...
The older ( minus 30-40 years) were significantly more robust.
Click to expand...

How many 30-40 year old Shigs do you have? My 40ish year old Yanagiba is definitely quite heafty and I love it =)

My older Kasumi Gyuto is also heavier than the most recent Kasumi batch.
 
Andrey V said:
Sounds very reasonable Jack
I have many in both versions and see no difference besides their looks.
I mean in feeling or cutting performance.
After all you should know that Shigefusa 's Kitaeji isn't that visible and can be shown by etching ( easy way) or fingerpolishing( more sophisticated way)
It's been said they maybe tend to bend, but.. I saw/ have/ use older Shigefusa versions as well, both in Kitaeji & Kasumi, don't face this problem.
Though Shigefusa used to be more interesting before.. The knives were much more sturdy, heavier and harder. Before his " western taste" adaptations.
From this point of view any older Kasumi beats any today's Kitaeji, IMHO, sure.
And what makes me [emoji51][emoji51][emoji51][emoji51][emoji51][emoji51]- Shigefusa 's retention and indestructible love to chip...
The older ( minus 30-40 years) were significantly more robust.
Click to expand...

Interesting, my older Japanese Chisels (35 years) seem to be robust than ones I've purchased over the past five years. I'm glad that Fred (Japan Woodworker) pointed me in the right direction when I decided to go Japanese Tooling for my wood shop.

It's been said they maybe tend to bend, but.. I saw/ have/ use older Shigefusa versions as well, both in Kitaeji & Kasumi, don't face this problem.
Though Shigefusa used to be more interesting before.. The knives were much more sturdy, heavier and harder. Before his " western taste" adaptations.



Are you saying that the multiple layer Kitaeji might be more prone to bending? I would have thought that the Kasumi might have more internal stresses (just my gut feel).

Jack
 
Any clad knife can bend, sooner or later. On one hand, I remember reading that knives aren't considered 'settled' until almost 10 years old, which suggests that over time the chances are less. On the other, I think the comments in Shigefusa (originating from Dr Naka's blog) indicate a concern with protecting against warping in the long term.

This doesn't mean Shigefusa are prone to bending over other knives, so I think that's a misunderstanding above. The topic was just discussed with Dr Naka and Iizuka shared some of his concerns for this in response to questions. The same blog said that Shigs have a reputation for not bending, while the kitaeji is designed to be like honyaki, not likely to bend, but with more strength and less delicacy like sanmai. So to answer Jack's question, no, kitaeji should not be prone to bend. The opposite.
 
Asteger said:
Any clad knife can bend, sooner or later. On one hand, I remember reading that knives aren't considered 'settled' until almost 10 years old, which suggests that over time the chances are less. On the other, I think the comments in Shigefusa (originating from Dr Naka's blog) indicate a concern with protecting against warping in the long term.

This doesn't mean Shigefusa are prone to bending over other knives, so I think that's a misunderstanding above. The topic was just discussed with Dr Naka and Iizuka shared some of his concerns for this in response to questions. The same blog said that Shigs have a reputation for not bending, while the kitaeji is designed to be like honyaki, not likely to bend, but with more strength and less delicacy like sanmai. So to answer Jack's question, no, kitaeji should not be prone to bend. The opposite.
Click to expand...

Thank you Asteger, that was my impression based on many thinner layers vs one thicker layer given the stresses a better chance to settle out. Kinda like plywood with the Baltic birch being mush more stable than some of the badly layered imported products that warp like crazy.
 
So, gentlemen, all- in- all Kitaeji should be (maybe) more resistant against bending, but I don't face it. And I compare different shapes as well( Yanagiba, Usuba, Gyuto, Santoku..) i think best compare is on Yanagiba- no problems. Older are heavier, and they don't tend to chip that easy. Frankly speaking the retention is better as well..
 
Still waiting a western Gyuto in 210mm. Lol any good news coming!!!!
 
Always wishing I checked my email just a few minutes earlier when the Shig thread comes in...always too late!
 
I have to ask with the crazy high demand why aren't the shigefusa trio making more yo-handled knives? Does anyone have a proper explanation?
 
ynot1985 said:
I always assumed its more labour intensive to make yo blades with integrated bolsters so wa is easier and quicker to make more of
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this is probably true, i mean from a production point of view, why not bang out more wa and still have them sell out on the spot than take more time to bang out a yo.
 
inzite said:
this is probably true, i mean from a production point of view, why not bang out more wa and still have them sell out on the spot than take more time to bang out a yo.
Click to expand...

For sure this is a multifactorial and complex operational/supply chain/market question, though maybe the answer is as simple that the family is not profit driven and their craft is regarded as an elevate mix of tradition and art?
 
I think some are looking too deeply into it. Perhaps it's simply what they chose and want to do?
 
Eamon Burke said:
Shigefusa is the trade name for Shigefloxam Fusocyanate, a drug developed to counteract the toxic effect of heavy metal buildup from your fingers being perpetually covered in swarf and mud from JNats. Once it builds up in your muscles, it will actually alter the mitochondrial DNA in the cells that line the walls of your blood vessels, and slowly convert them to a compound comprised of Silica, Carbon, and Iron, until your blood is literally flowing with Hitachi steel and Uchigomori mud.

Traditionally, when old sword makers died, they would just remove these deposits from their hearts and that is where Tamahagane "Blooms" come from. They then made more swords out of them, which closes the energy cycle.
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Well played, sir!
 
18952657_10155367552694557_1873670167521265729_n.jpg


nakiri.
 
I just wanted to say a big mahalo to you Maxim for the new Shig.
I saw the email and could not believe my luck when the link was still active.
It has been a dream knife for years and I cannot thank you enough for the speedy and easy transaction.
Aloha!
 
mauichef said:
I just wanted to say a big mahalo to you Maxim for the new Shig.
I saw the email and could not believe my luck when the link was still active.
It has been a dream knife for years and I cannot thank you enough for the speedy and easy transaction.
Aloha!
Click to expand...

What did u get ray?
 
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