Son's Old "Sabatier" WIP

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
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Benuser said:
I would think a longer knife does need a higher tip than a shorter one to have the same tangent. Supposing both will be held in the same way of course.
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Why would you go off tangent instead of absolute height?? That doesn't make any sense to me.
 
Andrew H said:
Why would you go off tangent instead of absolute height?? That doesn't make any sense to me.
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With these knives traditionally the tip is at the level of the ferrule's bottom, no matter what height you may find at the heel. I guess the cooks worked with a very restrained space.
 
Here's an update. I may refine it a touch but the main thing now is to decide on the handle. Holding it left-handed, I could see myself using it but right-handed is a bit wonky. Son specified that if the handle was to be removed, it should be sent to Kaleab. Regardless, here ya go. :)

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In case you can't tell which is the Sab, it's the bottom one. ;)
 
looking good. To bad he wanted the handle off. But it will look just as good or even better with a new one.
 
What is exactly the problem with the handle, and should you really have it changed, or do you have other options?
 
I dunno. What do you think?
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This is why I always have something propping it up on one side.
 
Yeah, looks like it needs to be replaced. Though it would be cool if that old handle could be used for something else, don't know what though. Nice work so far, love seeing the progress!
 
I could try to reshape the handle. The downside is I might end up with a big pile of wood dust and have to rehandle anyway. If I want to preserve something of the history of this knife, it will be the handle material. I've thinned the blade all the way up to the maker's mark so with a little more use, that will eventually have to go away, as well.
 
Depends if you're restoring it to use it or to preserve the history. That handle looks really tilted. I don't think I'd be crazy about using a handle like that.
 
Benuser said:
I have no experience with handles. Are there other options than replacement?
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well in this particular case the handle is only held on by a very small piece of metal. since it is a nogent style there is only a round rattail tang with the end pinged over. All you would have to do is grind off that little pinged end, which should take like 10 seconds and pull the handle off. I would then take the handle and use it as the sample to trace on a new piece of wood of your choice, cut it out, reshape it, drill it, shove it on and ping it over, give it a final shaping, put some oil on it and you are good to go. This method will allow you to save as much of the original handle as possible for posterity.
 
sachem allison said:
well in this particular case the handle is only held on by a very small piece of metal. since it is a nogent style there is only a round rattail tang with the end pinged over. All you would have to do is grind off that little pinged end, which should take like 10 seconds and pull the handle off. I would then take the handle and use it as the sample to trace on a new piece of wood of your choice, cut it out, reshape it, drill it, shove it on and ping it over, give it a final shaping, put some oil on it and you are good to go. This method will allow you to save as much of the original handle as possible for posterity.
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Sounds pretty simple. What is the metal ferrule there for? This handle is solidly attached. You think it's just rust?
 
tk59 said:
Sounds pretty simple. What is the metal ferrule there for? This handle is solidly attached. You think it's just rust?
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I think rust is part of it, but those rat tailed tangs were put in red hot just like traditional wa handles and the back was hammered like a rivet holding the whole thing under compression that's why it is so solid. The head is like a nail head, wide at the top with the shaft going into the wood. If you look real closely at the heel of the handle about dead center you should see it, it's almost the same color as the wood by now and I'm sure when it was cooled it contracted and pulled itself in a little further countersinking itself and tightening the fit. Some of them even had a threaded tang and a little nut at the end that was threaded on and then pinged over. Those worked on the principle of post tensioning, the more you tightened the handle the stronger it got so long as you didn't over tighten and split the handle. That handle very definitely twisted that means there is nothing on the other end holding it in place, it is essentially rotating in a socket, got to a certain point were the width of the bolster end prevented it from twisting any more and got stuck, This is very common in old Nogent style Sabatiers.
 
I see the little end of the tang that's been bent over. I'm just surprised that the handle somehow ended up twisted like this and then locked into place.
 
like pushing a fat girl through a window, You know she got in, you just can't figure out how come she can't get out. then you just run away before the cops come.
 
What ever became of this? I've got my eyes on an old nogent that needs some refinishing and a new handle. Want to attempt it myself if I get my hands on it on the cheap. Did this WIP get finished?
 
Fun thread. Appears something needs to be done handle wise to make it truly useable again.
 
Sorry about that. Getting the handle off without destroying the piece of wood is proving to be bit of a pickle and I've been very busy lately. I'll be back to messing with it soon.
 
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